FTM (he's yummy)

[FlyingNarwhal]

I don't know man, I feel like you're breaking it down to only physical attraction.  There's plenty of reasons to be no longer attracted to someone if you find something out about them personally.  Personally I wouldn't want to date/have sex with someone that used to be a man, even if they're passing as a woman.  It would kill the attraction for me on a mental level.  I'm sure there are a lot of people that may be physically attracted to someone and lose that attraction when they find out the person is: unfunny, boring, used to be a criminal, etc.

I literally don't care what anyone else does or is attracted to.  I'm just.not attracted to that.

You're an idiot.

I was specifically talking about the very opposite of physical attraction. I was saying that if you're attracted to a person and you then discover that they were born a different sex to they actually are, and then you PRETEND to no longer be attracted to them and lie to yourself due to a phobia, then you're a transphobic bigot in denial. That's what I'm saying. If you find someone attractive, then you find them attractive.

"EW I THOUGHT THEY WERE HOT BUT THEY 'USED TO BE A MAN' SO I CAN'T BELIEVE I FOUND THEM HOT THEY DISGUST ME NOW'" is something a transphobe says after pretending to no longer be attracted when they are. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Jeez this is a fucking mess. I'm sorry bud I think you're the one confused here and you're arguing completely from emotion. You ARE literally talking about physical attraction. Your example is that you see someone that is "HOT" who happens to be a trans woman. You seem to think that if you find someone physically attractive there should be nothing else that can sway a person from no longer being attracted to them. My point is that there are non physical things that can turn someone that you initially find physically attractive into an unattractive person. I could meet an absolute 10/10, smokeshow woman and be completely physically attracted to her. Then after speaking with her I find out that her hobby is drowning puppies on the weekends. I am no longer attracted to her.

I may find a transwoman physically attractive, then find out she used to be a dude. I'm not disgusted. I'm not ashamed of myself or my sexuality that I initially found her attractive. I'm just no longer interested. I'll send her your way and wish you both the best.

And yeah, no, a transwoman, for example, did NOT 'used to be a man' and statements like that once again testify to transphobia.

This shit I seriously laugh at. I'm assuming this is one of those, "A transwoman has always been a woman" things, which is just ludicrous. Look, if a transwoman wants to be called a woman I will do so, it's really not that difficult for me to do. What I won't do, is disregard basic biology and claim that they were never a man. It's really shocking to find someone, in an atheist forum of all places, that is completely willing to throw the science book out of the window because they believe that how someone feels should override science.

Fuck it, I'm making a claim! God exists! I haven't found any evidence or proof that God exists, I just feel like he does. Problem solved.

And the point is that finding out what biological sex someone was porn as perfectly is not 'finding out' something unattractive about someone, it's an irrelevant detail unless you're a bigot.

If someone looks physically attractive to you and you find their personallty attractive and you find them all feminine and they literally have ALL the qualities that get you really sexually excited, and then you react with "ew" once you discover they were born with a diferent set of genitals, then you're a fucking bigot fucking perioid.

I feel like I already covered this in my first point, you kind of seem to be repeating yourself throughout this post. Like I said, arguing from emotion...theres just no structure.

I do want to bring up a point here though. Your post is riddled with accusations of transphobia and bigotry. Like literally it's almost entirely made of ad hom attacks. I don't fear trans people and I also don't hate them. I haven't claimed that trans people should have less rights and i haven't advocated for violence against them either. I think they should be free to make whatever personal choices that they wish to make. I'm fine with being friends with trans people, I just don't want to date or have sex with them. And I don't impose my personal choices upon you either.

In fact if I were to take a guess, I would put down money that we are probably about 95% aligned in our view points regarding trans people. But according to you the only thing that separates me from being completely tolerant and from being a piece of shit that wants to fag bash trans people, is just that I don't want to date them. You're the social justice version of "The Little Boy That Cried Wolf." You are literally doing more harm than good for this issue. I'm a pretty level headed guy and I stand pretty firm on my beliefs, but you could easily push someone away from being more tolerant just because you act like a stuck up dick. Honestly, I've been debating sprinkling the word "cuck" into my response the entire time not because I've ever been a MAGA bro, but just because I knew it would probably piss you off. And that's the reaction you're going to get from middle of the road, moderate people that are just plain unaware. They'll jump to the other side just to spite you.

It's not about not being attracted to transpeople that makes you a bigot. I'm attracted to at least 50% of ciswomen and yet only like 1% of transwomen.... but the point is that on the few occasions that I do I find a transwomen attractive and I couldn't even tell that they weren't cis... if I then discover they're not cis I'm not going to suddenly retroactively act all disgusted and say "Ew" and no longer become attracted because I'm not a fucking bigoted moron. I'm not going to start PRETENDING to no longer be attracted because I'm not fucking phobic of anything or anyone that I find attractive and I'm perfectly secure and in touch with WHATEVER turns me on.

If a cisman ever looked enough like a ciswoman to turn me on I wouldn't suddenly pretend I didn't find them attractive once I discovered they're a dude either.

So far though, that's never happened. I've never seen one dude who identifies as a dude and is born as a dude who looks feminine enough for me to find attractive. All men look like either sweaty meatbags or pretty boys to me... neither of which I find attractive lol. And it doesn't make me a bigot to be thus far 100% straight and find men to be as unattractive as fuck... but it WOULD make me a bigot if I was attracted to a guy but I lied to myself and pretended not to be due to a homophobia. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. I'm open to the possiblity of one day perhaps finding a guy attractive, and if I ever did I would embrace that side of myself. Supposedly everyone has a little bit of a gay side to them so I guess I haven't found mine yet. But IMO perhaps most people are at least a little bit bisexual but I think I'm one of those few people who really are 100% hetero. The point is I wouldn't lie to myself or act all phobic if I were to find a person attractive... whether they're trans, cis a man a woman genderfluid gender neutral or whatever. I wouldn't lie to myself, I wouldn't be phobic and I wouldn't pretend I wasn't attracted to someone when I was.

Yes there are many things that you can discover about a person that really is a relevant turn off, but being turned off for a bigot reason, or PRETENDING to be, for a bigoted reason... is not one of them.

Again I feel like I covered all of this in the beginning, you just kind of rambled the same thing after the first three paragraphs. Now go make another Sound cloud audio file to REALLY get your point across you virtue signaling edgelord.

[Edwardo Piet]

This shit I seriously laugh at.  I'm assuming this is one of those, "A transwoman has always been a woman" things, which is just ludicrous.

Just ludicrous? We're talking about people with female brains who are female who were born with a male's body... the fact you think transwomen WEREN'T always women just shows that you're not only ludicrous but also a bigoted unprogressive fucktard who doesn't deserve a further response. Feel free to laugh at it while progressive people with empathy paint a BIGOT sign on your head and think of you as a fucking moron.

Yes, yes, a transwoman has always been a woman. You dolt.

And LOL @ you saying I argue from emotion when I barely even have any. That was kind of what the Soundcloud thing was all about... to try and stop idiots thinking I was emotional just because I find it more enjoyable to write in an emotional style. But apparently even when I talk all deadpan and people can hear my tone of voice people are too retarded to notice that there isn't much emotion going on inside my head. But it would be boring as fuck if I wrote like an unemotional robot.

---

I may find a transwoman physically attractive, then find out she used to be a dude.  I'm not disgusted.  I'm not ashamed of myself or my sexuality that I initially found her attractive.  I'm just no longer interested.  I'll send her your way and wish you both the best.

Bigot. If her body and personality is attractive to you then how she was born initially is irrelevant and a genetic fallacy. Your only possible motive for being in said denial is bigotry.

If you're attracted, you're attracted. "Oh no she used to be a dude" that line itself is bigoted. YOUR WHOLE THOUGHT PROCESS IS CLEARLY BIGOTED No she didn't "Used to be a dude". She used to have a dude's body but she was never a dude, she now has both a female brain and female body... and you found her attractive until you realized she was born differently. The fact you're changing your mind based on that just shows you're driven by your own bigotry.

And anyways, it's very clear that I'm right about your bigotry ever since I quoted your admittance that you think transwomen weren't always women.

You're so unprogressive it's vile.

[The Grand Nudger]

Oh fuck...girls who drown puppies for fun are the worst, amiright?  

Unless, you know, pho....in which case..girl...I lerv you,cook me those noodles!

[rskovride]

Is anyone else spotting the dualism in this conversation? "She used to have a man's body"..... How does it affect the argument (transgender) if monism is presupposed?

Not trying to be sarcastic, serious question.

[Catholic_Lady]

I wouldn't feel attracted to someone who was biologically female because I'm not attracted to the female sex. If that makes me a bigot in some people's eyes, oh well.

Anyway, this is interesting. I'm gonna start a poll on this when I get home/have time.

[Edwardo Piet]

Is anyone else spotting the dualism in this conversation?  "She used to have a man's body".....  How does it affect the argument (transgender) if monism is presupposed?

Not trying to be sarcastic, serious question.

"She" refers to her self/identity just as "I" refers to my self/identity.

No dualism required. Unless you consider physicalist epiphenomenalism to count as dualism. Or the fact that consciousness is first person and subjective and everything else is third person and objective.

I don't consider it dualism. Or at least, to call it dualism would be misleading.

---

I wouldn't feel attracted to someone who was biologically female because I'm not attracted to the female sex. If that makes me a bigot in some people's eyes, oh well.

Again I'm talking about someone who is attracted but then pretends not to be after discovering something irrelevant.

[Catholic_Lady]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I would no longer feel attracted to a person once learning they are biologically a women because I am not attracted to the female sex. When it comes to sexual attraction, the person's sex is not irrelevant to me.

[Edwardo Piet]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I would no longer feel attracted to a person once learning they are biologically a women because I am not attracted to the female sex. When it comes to sexual attraction, the person's sex is not irrelevant to me.

Even when they appear identical hence why you initially thought they were male...?

None of us are attracted to the essence of someone, we are all attracted to appearances because appearances is all that appears to us. Anyone who is attracted to an appearance and then discovers that someone's genetics is different to they thought it was.... is being bigoted about the way someone is born.

I mean, if you're not attracted to the appearance of a black person that isn't racist because we can't help what appearances we are or aren't attracted to. But if a black person looks white but has the DNA of a black person and you suddenly aren't attracted to them anymore once you discover their DNA is black because you don't like their black DNA... that's racist. We have no choice in what appearances we are or aren't attrracted to but if we literally care about DNA or how someone is born despite how they appear and behave and how they are mentally and physically... it's... am I the only one who recognizes this? Being anti-DNA is kind of taking a eugenics position. It's not the same as being unattracted to an appearance as appearances are what we are attracted to and we have no control over that. If you are attracted to an appearance of someone and then you discover something that has nothing to do with their appearance (or behavior because behavior is an appearance)... then you can't truly not be attracted anymore because it has nothing to do with what the attraction is aimed at (the appearance). Hence why I talk of denial.

Again, I'm not just talking about physical appearances. I'm talking about mental appearances too. How the person's personality seems to you. How their behavior seems to you. AND how they physically seem to you.

If you literally are attracted to everything about how the person seems to be to you, then you are attracted to that person, it doesn't matter what their DNA is so to recoil at their DNA for phobic or religious reasons is bigoted. It's not like you can actually control your own sexual attraction. Either we're attracted to the way someone seems to us or we're not.

Maybe I'm the only one who sees this but I definitely see it without question.

[SaStrike]

Female brain? Male body? My inner bigot is getting triggered.

[Catholic_Lady]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I would no longer feel attracted to a person once learning they are biologically a women because I am not attracted to the female sex. When it comes to sexual attraction, the person's sex is not irrelevant to me.

Even when they appear identical hence why you initially thought they were male...?

None of us are attracted to the essence of someone, we are all attracted to appearances because appearances is all that appears to us. Anyone who is attracted to an appearance and then discovers that someone's genetics is different to they thought it was.... is being bigoted about the way someone is born.

I mean, if you're not attracted to the appearance of a black person that isn't racist because we can't help what appearances we are or aren't attracted to. But if a black person looks white but has the DNA of a black person and you suddenly aren't attracted to them anymore once you discover their DNA is black because you don't like their black DNA... that's racist. We have no choice in what appearances we are or aren't attrracted to but if we literally care about DNA or how someone is born despite how they appear and behave and how they are mentally and physically... it's... am I the only one who recognizes this? Being anti-DNA is kind of taking a eugenics position. It's not the same as being unattracted to an appearance as appearances are what we are attracted to and we have no control over that. If you are attracted to an appearance of someone and then you discover something that has nothing to do with their appearance (or behavior because behavior is an appearance)... then you can't truly not be attracted anymore because it has nothing to do with what the attraction is aimed at (the appearance). Hence why I talk of denial.

Again, I'm not just talking about physical appearances. I'm talking about mental appearances too. How the person's personality seems to you. How their behavior seems to you. AND how they physically seem to you.

If you literally are attracted to everything about how the person seems to be to you, then you are attracted to that person, it doesn't matter what their DNA is so to recoil at their DNA for phobic or religious reasons is bigoted. It's not like you can actually control your own sexual attraction. Either we're attracted to the way someone seems to us or we're not.

Maybe I'm the only one who sees this but I definitely see it without question.

Well, first of all they certainly don't look identical naked. Plastic surgery can only do so much when you're trying to literally build a penis or vagina, and fake boobs are obvious as well, if it were the other way around.

But let's say they did look identical. I still wouldn't feel attraction because I would know that the person is biologically a woman, and being biologically a woman is a huge turn off to me because I am not attracted to the female sex.