Question for the heterosexual men of AF

[Losty]

I’m sorry, your post is too long for my brain to handle. Obviously some people are transphobic. But i don’t think losing attraction for someone after finding out they used to be a different gender necessarily means someone is a bigot or is transphobic. Sexual and emotional attraction are very complicated things. I can’t say for sure but I think if I were a lesbian and not remotely attracted to men I might not be attracted to someone who once had a penis.

Some people are transphobic and transphobic people are not attracted to trans people. It does not follow that not being attracted to trans people means you’re transphobic though.

[Edwardo Piet]

Yes. I have only been attracted to a couple of transwomen in my life and if it was none of them instead of a couple that wouldn't be transphobic. But I think if I was not attracted to transwomen because they're trans, rather than because I don't find them attractive, then to me that doesn't seem genuine.

[Losty]

Yes. I have only been attracted to a couple of transwomen in my life and if it was none of them instead of a couple that wouldn't be transphobic. But I think if I was not attracted to transwomen because they're trans, rather than because I don't find them attractive, then to me that doesn't seem genuine.

I assume most hetero men are not attracted to men because they’re men. And most hetero women are not attracted to women because they’re women. Gay men are not attracted to women because they’re women and lesbians are not attracted to men because they’re men. So I guess I don’t see the difference in someone not being attracted to a trans person simply because they’re not attracted to trans people. Humans are strange. We are attracted to some things and put off by other things and we have no real control over what we find yummy and what we find icky.

[ignoramus]

If Angelina Jolie came to me and told me she identifies as a male ... I'd say, yeah, whatever, can we have sex right now? lol!

[J a c k]

Lol I just realized Jack voted on the poll. Cheater!

I’m a special case! Lol

[henryp]

Yes. I have only been attracted to a couple of transwomen in my life and if it was none of them instead of a couple that wouldn't be transphobic. But I think if I was not attracted to transwomen because they're trans, rather than because I don't find them attractive, then to me that doesn't seem genuine.

You have a word 'transphobic' that has clear negative connotations.  What you're doing is widening the umbrella to squeeze benign things under it, while relying on the severity of the label 'transphobic' to imply it's worse than it is.   

This is pretty common, and a really risky tactic.  The theory is to pressure people to behave a certain way out of fear of being labeled.  But what happens is you draw a silly line in the sand, and people correctly say "If that's truly transphobic, then being transphobic doesn't mean anything of consequence."  Which neuters your own cause.  Pun unintentional when written, but celebrated in hindsight.

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I'd also add it seems like you might be doing a disservice to the trans cause by making it about appearance.  Like cutting off your penis, getting fake boobs, and hormone replacement is 'just like a woman', when I don't think any of that has anything to do with gender.  A mustachio'd lady with a big swinging dick who identifies as a woman is just as much of a woman as one who's gone through all the procedures.  

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An interesting question for a gay man, would be if they were attracted to such a mustachio'd large penised lady, would finding out they were a woman be a deal breaker?  Would that make them straight/bi?

[CapnAwesome]

Love is love. If you really, sincerely cared about that person, I don’t see why that would matter.

Because I have an active imagination, and don't like thinking about dicks.

[Edwardo Piet]

You have a word 'transphobic' that has clear negative connotations.  What you're doing is widening the umbrella to squeeze benign things under it, while relying on the severity of the label 'transphobic' to imply it's worse than it is.   

Nope. Once again my argument is misunderstood.

No umbrella widening required. Why do you think I made analogies with racism?

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Love is love. If you really, sincerely cared about that person, I don’t see why that would matter.

Because I have an active imagination, and don't like thinking about dicks.

Then don't think about dicks... especially when the person doesn't have a dick. Not liking dicks isn't the same as not liking a person without a dick. It's the misassociation with the two things that I deem suspicious.

[CapnAwesome]

You have a word 'transphobic' that has clear negative connotations.  What you're doing is widening the umbrella to squeeze benign things under it, while relying on the severity of the label 'transphobic' to imply it's worse than it is.   

Nope. Once again my argument is misunderstood.

No umbrella widening required. Why do you think I made analogies with racism?

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Because I have an active imagination, and don't like thinking about dicks.

Then don't think about dicks... especially when the person doesn't have a dick.

Its the whole "don't think about pink elephants" thing. You can't just tell someone to not think about something. I mean, duh. It's in the brain or it's not. I don't have any control over that baseline of bubbling constant thoughts, and neither does anyone else.

[Edwardo Piet]

Nope. Once again my argument is misunderstood.

No umbrella widening required. Why do you think I made analogies with racism?

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Then don't think about dicks... especially when the person doesn't have a dick.

Its the whole "don't think about pink elephants" thing. You can't just tell someone to not think about something. I mean, duh. It's in the brain or it's not. I don't have any control over that baseline of bubbling constant thoughts, and neither does anyone else.

Yes but not liking pink elephants or penises are equally irrelevant to not being attracted to someone without a penis.

You may THINK that not being attracted to one of those could mean a person with a penis is no longer attractive to you, you may think that 'they used to have a penis' means they are no longer attractive, but your brain isn't actually referencing the person you mistakenly claim to be unattracted to, your brain is referencing something else you're unattracted to that no longer applies to them. And the disonnect and the motives behind it is what I find suspicious. Why is "used to have a penis" considered relevant?

Like I said, imagine in the far future where the operation was so perfect it instead became an atom for atom swap, the DNA got swapped, the chromosones got swapped and the biologicallly male body changing to a woman's transition was so perfect the woman was physically identical to a woman born a woman, atom for atom, chromosone for chromosone, 100% convincing and able to have kids.

You find them super hot, fall in love with the, fuck their brains out, consider their personality attractive. Their vagina feels real because it's physically identical to a woman who had never been needed to transform like that, and you get them pregnant. You then discover they had the atom for atom swap and are like "YUCK! They were different before!"

I fail to see how such a reaction is motivated by anything other than phobia and bigotry..... you ARE still attracted but you think you're not, so why are you self-deceived? What motivates that self-deception?

And I fail to see how if an imperfect operation in today's world is convincing enough that you wouldn't know the difference until you're told the difference... I fail to see how it's any different to the other scenario I described in any way that's relevant to my argument.

But if plenty of people who are your intellectual superior hasn't caught on to the logical specifics of what I'm driving at, then I very much doubt that you'll get where I'm coming from when you are a dude who doesn't even grasp the usefulness of basic logical fallacy spotting lol.