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RE: Arguments for God in Quran.
April 2, 2018 at 2:59 pm
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2018 at 3:00 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(April 2, 2018 at 1:24 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (April 2, 2018 at 1:21 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: What? No. You cannot assume your conclusion in your first premise, lol.
“It’s clear we’re being guided by something, therefore a guide exists” is circular reasoning.
Try again.
There is guidance.
And if you think about long enough, yes, you realize it requires a source.
To say there is a source of guidance would be not sequitur, but at same time, we know it's irrational to say guidance has no source.....
So what is the source of guidance for you? What is doing the guiding?
Or do you believe love is not to act according to moral guidance.
MK, you’re making this too hard.
I am a human being. I am conscious, sentient, and reasonably intelligent compared to lesser animals. In other words, I posses the basic building blocks for experiencing empathy.
I don’t want to be harmed. I don’t want to be beaten, raped, or killed, because those things hurt. I feel badly imagining other people being hurt in those ways because I can put myself in their shoes. That’s empathy, and it’s the foundation of human morality. It’s by no means a comprehensive analysis of morality, but empathy is necessary. Treat others the way you would want to be treated.
See that? No god needed.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: Arguments for God in Quran.
April 2, 2018 at 2:59 pm
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2018 at 3:01 pm by Mystic.)
I'm not asking details, I am showing an essential problem that we don't have a source outside ourselves.
We decide, so then it's not guidance. But if we recognize guidance and act according to morals, than what is it?
(April 2, 2018 at 2:59 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (April 2, 2018 at 1:24 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: There is guidance.
And if you think about long enough, yes, you realize it requires a source.
To say there is a source of guidance would be not sequitur, but at same time, we know it's irrational to say guidance has no source.....
So what is the source of guidance for you? What is doing the guiding?
Or do you believe love is not to act according to moral guidance.
MK, you’re making this too hard.
I am a human being. I am conscious, sentient, and reasonably intelligent compared to lesser animals. In other words, I posses the basic building blocks for experiencing empathy.
I don’t want to be harmed. I don’t want to be beaten, raped, or killed, because those things hurt. I feel badly imagining other people being hurt in those ways because I can put myself in their shoes. That’s empathy, and it’s the foundation of human morality. It is by no means a comprehensive analysis of morality, but empathy is necessary. Treat others the way you would want to be treated.
See that? No god needed.
Yet most humans don't treat people how they wish to be treated. But again, how do we recognize an imperative like that?
Did you decide it or are you recognizing it? If the latter, where is it the imperative to be empathetic from? Why not override it.
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RE: Arguments for God in Quran.
April 2, 2018 at 3:02 pm
You mean...gasp..humans are fallible?
Extra, extra, read all about it!
Hey, wait a minute...most humans don;t treat people as they wish to be treated and simultaneously most people believe in gods? It's almost as if god belief isn't a moral modifier..or something.....
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Arguments for God in Quran.
April 2, 2018 at 3:02 pm
(April 2, 2018 at 2:59 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I'm not asking details, I am showing an essential problem that we don't have a source outside ourselves.
We decide, so then it's not guidance. But if we recognize guidance and act according to morals, than what is it?
(April 2, 2018 at 2:59 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: MK, you’re making this too hard.
I am a human being. I am conscious, sentient, and reasonably intelligent compared to lesser animals. In other words, I posses the basic building blocks for experiencing empathy.
I don’t want to be harmed. I don’t want to be beaten, raped, or killed, because those things hurt. I feel badly imagining other people being hurt in those ways because I can put myself in their shoes. That’s empathy, and it’s the foundation of human morality. It is by no means a comprehensive analysis of morality, but empathy is necessary. Treat others the way you would want to be treated.
See that? No god needed.
Yet most humans don't treat people how they wish to be treated.
You’re right. People do horrendous things to each other in the name of god.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: Arguments for God in Quran.
April 2, 2018 at 3:04 pm
Why don't you override it LadyForCamus?
If it simply is about how you feel, what if empathy makes a person sad about the world, why don't they ignore it?
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RE: Arguments for God in Quran.
April 2, 2018 at 3:06 pm
(April 2, 2018 at 2:59 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Yet most humans don't treat people how they wish to be treated. But again, how do we recognize an imperative like that?
Both empathy and cruelty can be explained by evolution.
And yeah, most humans don't treat other humans well. And, the worst harms ever commit towards other human beings... have also been committed by highly fanatic theists...
Gotta love Galen Strawson:
![[Image: galen-strawson-543289.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.azquotes.com%2Fpublic%2Fpicture_quotes%2F39%2F1d%2F391d8907326da1bcd3feac3e9730b8ff%2Fgalen-strawson-543289.jpg)
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RE: Arguments for God in Quran.
April 2, 2018 at 3:06 pm
If most humans don't act according to empathy but negate it and ignore it, what makes you assess empathy is good?
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RE: Arguments for God in Quran.
April 2, 2018 at 3:07 pm
(April 2, 2018 at 3:04 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Why don't you override it LadyForCamus?
If it simply is about how you feel, what if empathy makes a person sad about the world, why don't they ignore it?
Are you asking camus why she can't override something that your almighty creator has failed to override?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Arguments for God in Quran.
April 2, 2018 at 3:08 pm
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2018 at 3:08 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(April 2, 2018 at 2:59 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I'm not asking details, I am showing an essential problem that we don't have a source outside ourselves.
We decide, so then it's not guidance. But if we recognize guidance and act according to morals, than what is it?
You understand that the term, ‘self-guided’ is a thing, right?
Quote:Did you decide it or are you recognizing it? If the latter, where is it the imperative to be empathetic from? Why not override it.
I’m not sure what you’re asking me here.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: Arguments for God in Quran.
April 2, 2018 at 3:08 pm
(April 2, 2018 at 3:08 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (April 2, 2018 at 2:59 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I'm not asking details, I am showing an essential problem that we don't have a source outside ourselves.
We decide, so then it's not guidance. But if we recognize guidance and act according to morals, than what is it?
You understand that the term, ‘self-guided’ is a thing, right?
only if it recognizes guidance for what is and doesn't say it is being guided by it's own deciding of what guidance is.
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