Arguments for God in Quran.

[Foxaèr]

only if it recognizes guidance for what is and doesn't say it is being guided by it's own deciding of what guidance is.

Word salad.

[The Grand Nudger]

So, to recap.  You waste a dozen pages or so desperately avoiding posting an argument.  The argument you eventually presented was stillborn...and now you're trying to get other people to tell you the difference between right and wrong?

[Mystic]

I'm not asking details, I am showing an essential problem that we don't have a source outside ourselves.

We decide, so then it's not guidance. But if we recognize guidance and act according to morals, than what is it?

You understand that the term, ‘self-guided’ is a thing, right?

Did you decide it or are you recognizing it? If the latter, where is it the imperative to be empathetic from? Why not override it.

I’m not sure what you’re asking me here.

Deciding it means like you say "well I want to wear this and that today", it's a decision, creative.

Recognizing means "I should do this and that".

If it's a should, implied in it, it's a command, at some level, you feel pushed to do it and recognize that it's your duty, even if you fail to act according to it.

So if we are recognizing it but are not it's source, as we are the agents to act on it, what is it?

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So, to recap.  You waste a dozen pages or so desperately avoiding posting an argument.  The argument you eventually presented was stillborn...and now you're trying to get other people to tell you the difference between right and wrong?

It's actually quite simple. Guidance needs proof, and God's proof is that guidance.

That's all it is. And with God there is no proof for guidance, there is only misguidance.


The fact is you decide to be moral or empathetic, is just you stating, what you know I know is good to do, but that's because God's proof is ever with you.

No such thing as axioms. There is proof and seeing proof, that's all it is.

But the whole world doesn't want to recognize God's proof because it means they have to accept it as King and Ruler, and as a living thing to act on, and with further with the delegation problem, it's proven to be a human.

[LadyForCamus]

If most humans don't act according to empathy but negate it and ignore it, what makes you assess empathy is good?

First, how did you determine that most people don’t act according to empathy?  

Second, as Hammy pointed out, “most” people who harm each other are theists who are killing in the name of their God’s moral authority.  So, how is that perfect, necessary guidance working out?

[Mystic]

If most humans don't act according to empathy but negate it and ignore it, what makes you assess empathy is good?

First, how did you determine that most people don’t act according to empathy?  

Second, as Hammy pointed out, “most” people who harm each other are theists who are killing in the name of their God’s moral authority.  So, how is that perfect, necessary guidance working out?

Look Africa. QED.

No one cares, yet we are paragons of empathy or do we deceive ourselves?

Morality and assessment whether we are good and evil, guided or misguided, running towards the right direction or away, needs proof.

And proof is only possible for it, if it's God's proof and his word brought to life.

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Not very well, but it's still necessary if we are to have a chance of uniting on good.

[FatAndFaithless]

Can someone translate Mystic into english? Or is it as incomprehensible as it looks?

[The Grand Nudger]

It's actually quite simple. Guidance needs proof, and God's proof is that guidance.

Well...you better get to supplying gods proof, then, huh?   Otherwise I can only conclude that you're misguided.

[LadyForCamus]

only if it recognizes guidance for what is and doesn't say it is being guided by it's own deciding of what guidance is.

Word salad.

You’re being awfully generous. 😏

[Mystic]

Can someone translate Mystic into english?  Or is it as incomprehensible as it looks?

I am saying opinion of what is good is not goodness.

Goodness is acting on love with insight to true guidance which requires proof.

Proof is by God's proof or otherwise there is no proof. There is but conjecture to what morality and goodness is.

But the fact we all know some morals, means not only do we know God exists, but we know God's proof exists and we know it, no matter how much we forget and deny it and ignore it.

[Foxaèr]

Word salad.

You’re being awfully generous. 😏

I have to dole out my meanness sparingly.