Arguments for God in Quran.

[Mystic]

It's sad when we have to use terms like "secular morality" when it should just be "morality".  Unfortunately, the way religious people like to unreasonably monopolize terms makes us have to add the "secular" bit.

It's about material type chemical creating goodness and morality vs a mystic spiritual morality, in this topic.

Although religion is relevant, this is not the heart of the argument.

[LadyForCamus]

You understand that the term, ‘self-guided’ is a thing, right?


I’m not sure what you’re asking me here.

Deciding it means like you say "well I want to wear this and that today", it's a decision, creative.

Recognizing means "I should do this and that".

If it's a should, implied in it, it's a command, at some level, you feel pushed to do it and recognize that it's your duty, even if you fail to act according to it.

So if we are recognizing it but are not it's source, as we are the agents to act on it, what is it?

Empathy is my primary driver for moral decision making on an individual level.  I don’t need a god to feel empathy. I don’t need a god to to tell me it’s wrong to hurt people.  I simply have no desire to hurt people.  And if I did hurt someone (and I have), I feel badly about it.  I try to make reparations as best I can, try to heal the hurt I’ve caused, and not make the same mistakes going forward.  It’s not a mystery, and it’s no different than what you think your god is telling you to do.

[Mystic]

 How can you forge forth on a path without sight and light? It's impossible.

You should be asking yourself this question.  I have "sight and light"..you defer to magic book in absence of either...and bullshit yourself about the demon locks on -my- heart.......

Created by chemicals with no aspect of non-materialism?

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Deciding it means like you say "well I want to wear this and that today", it's a decision, creative.

Recognizing means "I should do this and that".

If it's a should, implied in it, it's a command, at some level, you feel pushed to do it and recognize that it's your duty, even if you fail to act according to it.

So if we are recognizing it but are not it's source, as we are the agents to act on it, what is it?

Empathy is my primary driver for moral decision making on an individual level.  I don’t need a god to feel empathetic.  I don’t need a god to to tell me it’s wrong to hurt people.  I simply have no desire to hurt people.  And if I did hurt someone (and I have), I feel badly about it.  I try to make reparations as best I can, and not make the same mistakes going forward.  It’s not a mystery, and it’s no different than what you think your god is telling you to do.

What is empathy. Forget the word, describe it's reality.

[The Grand Nudger]

Created by chemicals with no aspect of non-materialism or created by magic with goddism..it hardly matters.  I have what you seek and you do not, as every interaction you have with me makes painfully obvious.

You're clearly doing something wrong. Maybe you should kick your imam to the curb?

[LadyForCamus]

You should be asking yourself this question.  I have "sight and light"..you defer to magic book in absence of either...and bullshit yourself about the demon locks on -my- heart.......

Created by chemicals with no aspect of non-materialism?

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Empathy is my primary driver for moral decision making on an individual level.  I don’t need a god to feel empathetic.  I don’t need a god to to tell me it’s wrong to hurt people.  I simply have no desire to hurt people.  And if I did hurt someone (and I have), I feel badly about it.  I try to make reparations as best I can, and not make the same mistakes going forward.  It’s not a mystery, and it’s no different than what you think your god is telling you to do.

What is empathy. Forget the word, describe it's reality.

Do you not know what empathy is?  Do you not have it?

[Mystic]

Created by chemicals with no aspect of non-materialism?

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What is empathy. Forget the word, describe it's reality.

Do you not know what empathy is?  Do you not have it?

I know what is, but when I see a human, I see soul and I value not bunch of chemicals creating a program, but a living real soul.

So I'm asking, you, define what it is in detail. And I want to see your assessment of it.

The Quranic perspective is we are closer to being one soul than not, we are if we are one soul, so it's natural from that perspective to feel empathy and it's the truth.

But just saying I am empathetic because it drives me is not very good reason for me.

[Edwardo Piet]

It's sad when we have to use terms like "secular morality" when it should just be "morality".  Unfortunately, the way religious people like to unreasonably monopolize terms makes us have to add the "secular" bit.

Not to worry. As, thankfully, we have some highly rational supporters that are amazing debaters, and they have theistic idiots embarrassing themselves by repeating childish crap about "brain fizz":

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It's sad when we have to use terms like "secular morality" when it should just be "morality".  Unfortunately, the way religious people like to unreasonably monopolize terms makes us have to add the "secular" bit.

It's about material type chemical creating goodness and morality vs a mystic spiritual morality, in this topic.

Although religion is relevant, this is not the heart of the argument.

So I take it you've given up on your argument for the existence of God and moved onto something else then?

Because on that matter you still have this to do:

1. first you need to define this moral guidance, so we know what you're actually arguing for.

2. Then you need to argue that it exists.

3. And finally you need to demonstrate why and how God is required for its existence.

[LadyForCamus]

I don't see how you don't realize goodness is to act on sight of what is good to do and follow with love, and both love and goodness need to value what is there, and has meaning, and that requires proof, and that proof is a mystic nature...

I don’t see how you don’t realize that what you just typed up there is incoherent,
meaningless, word salad that in no way follows from anything I said before it.  It’s like you have a Powerball machine full of words like, ‘truth’, ‘light’, ‘love’, ‘goodness’ ect., and you just transcribe which ever ones pop up, in the order they popped up in.  You’re not saying anything to me.

It's not some chemical reaction creating some algorithym, by which you feel good to act on. It's not. And it's time to admit.  You guys ask for proofs, and when clarified, you just mock around.
What you value, ought to be valued in truth, and truth requires proof, and the proof is a mystic nature, because it'

You mean we’ve successfully refuted your argument. Again. So, you’re back to stamping your feet and declaring we’re all in denial.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[The Grand Nudger]

So I'm asking, you, define what it is in detail. And I want to see your assessment of it.

Empathy is a common human ability to place one's self in the shoes of another.  I mean...it seems simple to me, I have it.  I guess, if you don't, it probably seems like magic.  I got knocked in the head once, really hard...by "god's proof"...and I couldn't feel it for a good while....I had trouble placing myself in my own shoes....but, you know..therapy, drugs, time, love and understanding from those closest to me.........in short, healing.............

[Mystic]

It requires proof. Goodness is not an axiom. It requires proof. It was always and is till proven to us.