porn and women

[Catholic_Lady]

Yes. I fear its effects on women/society, as I said to you on the previous page.

Are you looking for something to point the finger at when women are not treated by men/society the way you would like?

No

[Shell B]

Does it make women more insecure in bed? Insecure about their bodies?

Hell, no. Clothing ads are waaaaaaaaaay worse. One thing I've noticed about porn is that I'm always surprised that men love watching porn stars that I would consider ugly. Women have different standards for beauty. We're competing with our own idea of what's hot. From my experience, girl next door pretty (read:not movie star pretty) or totally sloppy skank are the two types men go for while women are trying to obtain this Aphrodite-esque perfection that makes us all sick.

[KevinM1]

Well, outside of the Ron Jeremy's of the world, most male porn actors are also beautiful people with above-normal endowment.  So, it's not like it's only women being physically objectified.

Also, it's not like porn is the only place where women are objectified.  Our entire mainstream media still objectifies women.  The Bechdel Test exists for a reason.  In the vast majority of our media, women are a prize to be rescued/saved/won.  Traditional, unfair gender stereotypes are still being pushed.  Unrealistic examples of female beauty and femininity permeate our culture, most specifically (and insidiously) with media and products aimed specifically to them.  There's still the idea that women are merely trophies - to be seen, not heard... whose #1 priority is to be pretty and popular rather than smart. Better to be a Disney Princess than a scientist.

On the flipside, in America, at least, we're suffering from a hyper-masculinity movement.  We've been bombarded by messages that threaten our ideas of manhood if we're without a woman in our lives to provide us with sex, or if we dare show thoughtfulness or sensitivity at all.  Words like 'beta', 'cuck', 'snowflake', etc. are becoming common parlance.  The guy in Toronto who murdered a bunch of people on the sidewalk with his van?  He did it because he was an 'incel' - involuntarily celibate.  It's a term the hyper-masculine use to define themselves/others who have purportedly had celibacy thrust upon them because, in their eyes, all women are stupid, selfish bitches who are only good for fucking, and they're too selfish to do it with these obviously fine, upstanding gentlemen.

Porn itself has often been very progressive.  At a time when interracial relationships were considered taboo, the porn industry had performers of various races having sex with each other.  At a time when gay, bi, and other couplings along the gender line are considered taboo, porn has a fair amount of that, too.  Plenty of porn exists where the woman is dominant.  And an increasing amount, if not the majority of, modern porn is created by women.  Technologically, porn is the reason why VHS beat Betamax, and one of the reasons why the internet exploded in the 90s.

Now, there are several terrible things associated with porn.  Physical abuse, substance abuse, disease, exploitation and abuse of minors, sex trafficking, etc.  But most of these issues aren't specific to porn.  A lot of these issues plague creative industries on the whole.

I really don't think that porn is somehow worse than the less obvious forms of objectification, or that the skeletons in its closet are substantially worse than, say, what happens in Hollywood.

[brewer]

Are you looking for something to point the finger at when women are not treated by men/society the way you would like?

No

Good, because there are a lot more influential things in our society that marginalize women than porn.

[Catholic_Lady]

I agree that men are objectified as well, and that the male porn actors often have to resort to taking unhealthy doses of Viagra. I'm not meaning to imply that men come out of it unscathed by any means. But since the majority of the porn audience is male, and since the majority of the porn workers are female, it seems this would be more a woman's issue.

[paulpablo]

It's basically just filming and putting on the internet what's already going on out there.

At one end of the spectrum there's porn that is a direct harm to women because the whole point of it is the harm.  Things like child pornography, abuse porn.  At the other end would be porn that women enjoy watching and they enjoyed making. 

It's difficult to make a generalization about, but I've definitely watched porn I felt guilty about watching because the women were obviously from poor countries, or just poor in general and didn't look like they were enjoying what they were doing.

I could be wrong or citing some debunked claim here but I think I heard somewhere that in places where there's more porn there's less instances of sex crimes, or it was some statistic like that.

[Brian37]

Do you think pornography generally has harmful effects on women in our society? 

Curious to know people's opinions.

Nothing is ever either/or.

Forced sex is a crime. Yes that can be harmful. No, one should not be exposing underage to it either. 

Outside that, consensual sex on film no. Not by itself. I do not think adult women consenting to sex on film for money should be vilified or demonized. Nobody talks about male porn stars in the same manor. 


Any kind of work can be exploited, not just sex. But sex between consenting adults should not be vilified. 

I would say any sex, on camera or not, even in boyfriend or spouse situations has to be consensual.

Where women really get hurt, is in the stigma of sex itself. Boys and men far to often get sold the idea of conquest and then when a female does the same even if consensual they get demonized and vilified.

Lots of the female blaming has it's roots in the religions of antiquity.


I

[Shell B]

I agree that men are objectified as well, and that the male porn actors often have to resort to taking unhealthy doses of Viagra. I'm not meaning to imply that men come out of it unscathed by any means. But since the majority of the porn audience is male, and since the majority of the porn workers are female, it seems this would be more a woman's issue.

It's a people issue that's mostly a non-issue. If people are forced to do it or any other crimes are committed, they should be treated as the crimes they other. Consenting adults having sex on film without coercion for use by adults is fine.

[The Industrial Atheist]

I really don't know. I'm fairly certain it hasn't reduced my respect for women. If anything, it increases my appreciation for different body types rather than leading me to only like some stereotypical build that rarely occurs without artificial enhancement. Maybe addiction really is a thing but i wonder what results you get if you compare it to addiction to coffee or cheeseburgers? My guess is there are as many or more people addicted to those last few things.

I'm sure there are people who get addicted and are assholish towards women or even commit crimes. But I doubt these people would be upstanding people without it.

Does it cause some harm. Probably.

But also too it provides people with an outlet that (in the absence of exploitation or coercion) doesn't hurt anyone.

[henryp]

I think part of the idea might be similar to seeing minorities repeatedly cast/portrayed in stereotypical roles in movies. It's thought to be a big deal of late with films like Hidden Figures or people like President Obama to have people viewing as intelligent leaders in film and real life instead.

If a guy is consuming a ton of porn, and he's watching women take it in the ass all day, even if it's not conscious, that kind of thing seems like it'd leave an impression on how he views and treats women.