DNA Proves Existence of a Designer

[LadyForCamus]

Who's preaching at who here? As for being attacked - you came here with the express intent to troll. You don't enjoy having discussions with those who don't agree with you because you said so yourself. You don't care about the opinions of any atheist here. Your words assbag. 


Dumbass. What religious beliefs do atheists have? We believe in logic and reason and can fully admit that when we don't know the answer to something, we just don't know. Your go to is the piss poor "goddidit" routine. FOAD.

You use absolutely no logic at all, or you would realize what is so abundantly clear to 93% of the world.

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Reading comprehension issues?

You are making a claim that a god exists.  The burden of proof is on the person making the claim.  Get to work.

No, I read what you claimed and now you are backing away from your claim because you cannot prove it.

Okay, you must be a troll, lol. Do you, or do you not claim that a god exists?

[no one]

No, it doesn't matter. Prove that Mr. Ed doesn't live in my basement.

[Angrboda]

Space time has always existed. Prove that it hasn't. Why do we exist at all? You don't think that even matters?

Waitaminute. If you think that space-time has always existed, then you have no quarrel with Krauss' hypothesis that the universe came from nothing. All you're proving is that you're a disingenuous and inconsistent twat.

[Bucky Ball]

The evidence is that everything exists. And it has never been proven that the processes that lead to life do not require an intelligent agent. Please present anything that you think disproves God. I'll be waiting (forever)

Sorry, what you claim as evidence is not evidence. 
That fact that something exists is proof or evidence of nothing. 
Virtual particles came and go ... no designer, no cause.
Atoms randomly decay into other arrangements, (atoms) ... no cause. 
You premise is demonstrably false. 

Obviously your knowledge of the state of science with regard to life origins is wanting. 
The Szostak video I posted IS PROOF that the processes that could lead to life, need no designer. Please stop making a fool of yourself. 
If you disagree with the chemistry presented, then IN DETAIL, refute it. 

I already presented what disproves a god : 

If a god "exists", then so does (as long as it existed) non-existence .. or it's property of "existence" is meaningless. It could NEVER have been the totality of Reality. 
A god that exists MUST participate (as long as it existed) in PART of Reality. Non-existence also was a part of Reality as long as "existence" was a property of Reaiity. 
It could not have created a Reality in which it is required to participate, only partially. Reality remains unexplained. "God" does not, (and cannot) explain Reality. 

There ya go.

[pocaracas]

Space time has always existed.

There you go...
Now, some reading.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation

"
In quantum physics, a quantum fluctuation (or vacuum state fluctuation or vacuum fluctuation) is the temporary change in the amount of energy in a point in space,[1] as explained in Werner Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.

This allows the creation of particle-antiparticle pairs of virtual particles. The effects of these particles are measurable, for example, in the effective charge of the electron, different from its "naked" charge.

Quantum fluctuations may have been very important in the origin of the structure of the universe: according to the model of expansive inflation the ones that existed when inflation began were amplified and formed the seed of all current observed structure. Vacuum energy may also be responsible for the current accelerating expansion of the universe (cosmological constant).

[...]

A quantum fluctuation is the temporary appearance of energetic particles out of empty space, as allowed by the uncertainty principle. The uncertainty principle states that for a pair of conjugate variables such as position/momentum or energy/time, it is impossible to have a precisely determined value of each member of the pair at the same time. For example, a particle pair can pop out of the vacuum during a very short time interval.

An extension is applicable to the "uncertainty in time" and "uncertainty in energy" (including the rest mass energy m c 2 {\displaystyle mc^{2}} mc^2). When the mass is very large like a macroscopic object, the uncertainties and thus the quantum effect become very small, and classical physics is applicable.
"

No god required, all very mathematical, so much more logical than the very complex entity you propose.

[Foxaèr]

It never ceases to amaze me that the apologetics spewed by theists resemble fallibly imaginative fabrications.

Of all the times theists claim to logically believe in god, while illogically stating that there is no evidence god doesn't exist, they cannot seem to reasonably understand the similarity there is no evidence that inebriated fairies aren't nightly dancing in my garden at midnight, but I believe in them anyway. After all, if one is going to unreasonably believe in god, why dismiss everything else that is just as unreasonable based on the same logical argument?

[Everena]

No, science definintely does not know why or how we have consciousness. There are neuroscientists all over the world working on solving the mystery of it right now.  And yours is also an argument of ignorance, just so we are on the same page with the type of discussion we are having.

If I may interject....

Would you say that a dog has consciousness?
How about a cat?
A chimp?
A bonobo?
An elephant?
An octopus?
A dolphin?
A whale?
A mouse?
A house fly?

What is consciousness?
How does it apply to humans, but not to most (or all) other animals?

Those neurologists look at all these and more animals and, within the limits of our ability to offer their thinking, attribute a spectrum of complexity of thought, of awareness of self and the world around... a spectrum of consciousness.
But you seem to imply that consciousness is an "all or nothing" deal. Either you have human-like consciousness, or you have nothing. Am I right?
If this were so, then I agree that we'd need to ask why that is...
But it's not. So there is no why.... And the how becomes a simple matter of complexity of certain structures of the brain.
And how did those structures evolve into what we see today? Here, since were taking about quite long time scales and actual brains of previous species have long decompress, we must speculate, based on the spectrum of brains we do see today and how they fit with brain sizes from what fossils we have from those previous species.

On the one hand, we have educated guesses, getting validated by computer modeling.
On the other, we have the next stage after myth, which was itself the next stage after folklore and tradition: god did it.

If you understand the history of the concept of god and evolution, then you understand that first there were men, already possessing a consciousness, and those men conjured up a rudimentary concept of god to help explain the world around them, the transition from life to death and to help ease the pain over lost loved ones. No god is actually required, but those people end up embracing the concept and believing it to be true.

If there was indeed a god behind consciousness itself, then let it come forward in the timeless fashion which you claim it has. Let all humans (those who feel the need to explain to other humans things about god) be quiet. Let god do the explaining and, if it fails at that task, let it remain the mental construct, the psychological crutch it has always been.

Every animal you named is conscious and so is the paramecium that does not even have a brain.

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This entire universe and everything in it is evidence of higher intelligence. How and why do we have consciousness? Science doesn't know the answer to that. And science does not even attempt to answer any of the whys of our existence. Like why do we exist at all? 

*Fixed that for you with my bolding.

I think she/he is looking for wildly speculative, just-so stories which not only make sense of the world but place ourselves at the very center of the story as God's own darlings.  She is right you know, science doesn't even try to pander to our vanities.

I don't believe in comforting stories. I think all religions are man-made but with a very good purpose in mind. Were some of them at least partly inspired by actual prophets of God? I don't know and neither do you.

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Everena, why is this massive form of energy of yours so obsessed with the unfolding of my life, does it have some sort of fetish?

I don't believe in an intervening God. I am more of a deist in that respect. Life presents challenges and we deal with them as they come. I also believe "hell" or "karma" is playing itself out right here, right now, right before our very eyes.

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Space time has always existed. Prove that it hasn't. Why do we exist at all? You don't think that even matters?

Waitaminute.  If you think that space-time has always existed, then you have no quarrel with Krauss' hypothesis that the universe came from nothing.  All you're proving is that you're a disingenuous and inconsistent twat.

I definitely do not believe any utter nonsense that an entire universe could come about from nothing. There has always been something and we have alway been.

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Space time has always existed.

There you go...
Now, some reading.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation

"
In quantum physics, a quantum fluctuation (or vacuum state fluctuation or vacuum fluctuation) is the temporary change in the amount of energy in a point in space,[1] as explained in Werner Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.

This allows the creation of particle-antiparticle pairs of virtual particles. The effects of these particles are measurable, for example, in the effective charge of the electron, different from its "naked" charge.

Quantum fluctuations may have been very important in the origin of the structure of the universe: according to the model of expansive inflation the ones that existed when inflation began were amplified and formed the seed of all current observed structure. Vacuum energy may also be responsible for the current accelerating expansion of the universe (cosmological constant).

[...]

A quantum fluctuation is the temporary appearance of energetic particles out of empty space, as allowed by the uncertainty principle. The uncertainty principle states that for a pair of conjugate variables such as position/momentum or energy/time, it is impossible to have a precisely determined value of each member of the pair at the same time. For example, a particle pair can pop out of the vacuum during a very short time interval.

An extension is applicable to the "uncertainty in time" and "uncertainty in energy" (including the rest mass energy m c 2 {\displaystyle mc^{2}} mc^2). When the mass is very large like a macroscopic object, the uncertainties and thus the quantum effect become very small, and classical physics is applicable.
"

No god required, all very mathematical, so much more logical than the very complex entity you propose.

God is still required, even more so considering it took the most brilliant minds that ever existed doing extremely complicated math to develop these discoveries about our already existing and operating universe.

[Foxaèr]

I definitely do not believe any utter nonsense that an entire universe could come about from nothing. There has always been something and we have alway been.

Stated while ignoring the illogical hole in your argument that god couldn't have come from nothing; therefore, who/what created god?

If you don't know, why not just state that instead of unreasonably clinging to a god belief?

[Bucky Ball]

But that process does not meet YOUR definition, now does it. Woops. 
A "process" takes time. 
How can there be a process when space-time does not exist yet. 

Theology claims God exists in a "timeless" environment, yet constantly defies that by ascribing temporal acts to your god. It's meaningless tripe.  
Intelligence and consciousness REQUIRE time to function. If your god has ALWAYS been conscious and intelligent where did the environment come from in which it MUST operate ? It couldn't have created it, if it needs it. 

Oh well. 
Just another below-standard troll. 
When will they send in a good one ? 
We had one, (only one) once on TTA.

Science validly attempts to discover the "how" (ie what the process WAS), (not why) of how things came to be in their present state.
No one gives a shit about "why". Science wants to know "how".
I think there's a Clue Store somewhere. Perhaps you could buy one there.

Space time has always existed. Prove that it hasn't. Why do we exist at all? You don't think that even matters?

You have not a shred of evidence that space-time 'always" existed. 
the only thing you have evidence of, is THIS universe. 
No one has to prove anything. YOU made the claim, YOU get to present evidence. 
Prove pink sparkly unicorns and leprechauns don't exist. 
You are quite the beginner at this game, i see. 

Now about buying a clue ... we could take up a collection for you.

We exist because of a long chain of events which resulted in the formation of mammals, and eventually intelligent ones.
No one gives a shit about your "why".
The only question is "how".
There is no Easter Bunny.
Time to grow up.

[Losty]

  with your beliefs. Tell me, how much care do you think atheists have with regards to your silly belie 

It's funny that you think I care what you think of the truth. If 93% of the world can get it, why can't you?

If you don’t care what any of us think, why are you here?

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Why does this thread have over 600 pages?