DNA Proves Existence of a Designer

[Pat Mustard]

I did go off topic here.  Still sticking with the US constitutional republic.

That's all right, your original topic sucks donkey balls.

Though the whole "the socializum is teh evuls" is, on balance, worse. Yes, we get that you're a creatard rtc who is constitutionally and intellectually capable of thinking for yourself or making choices in your best interests, but no need to whip your stupidity out of your pants every chance you get and start hitting us with it like it was a length of Wavin.

[CDF47]

I have not used a straw man argument once.  On the contrary, I am faced with straw man, ridicule, spin, and every other dirty debate trick in the book in this thread.

A straw man argument is one in which you propose the other person's position to be other than it actually is, in order to address something easier to defeat. An example would be all the times you claimed we believe everything came from nothing. The first time could have been an honest mistake. After our actual position was explained, every repetition of that claim was employment of a straw man fallacy.

I am being generous and assuming you're not too stupid to comprehend our actual position (not as atheists but as people who follow the science), that most of us go with the current science, which is that no one knows what was really going on before the initial expansion except that the universe was in a hot dense state before that. It could have been there forever in some form or another for all anyone knows. And Hawking may be wrong about the zero curvature, like he was wrong about some other things.

I wasn't intending that to be a straw man argument.  My point was from the best we know the universe came from nothing and now we have everything we see.  That was my point.  I will stop using it in that way.

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Christians are not supposed to hate Jews.  Even Jesus on the cross asked His Father to forgive them for they know not what they do.  He was referring to the Jews that put Him up there and the Romans doing their civil duty of execution.

And yet, throughout history it has been primarily the Christians who persecuted the Jews and kept anti-semitism alive.....

Initial persecution of Jews was along religious lines. Persecution would cease if the person converted to Christianity.

• 306: The church Synod of Elvira banned marriages, sexual intercourse and community contacts between Christians and Jews. 3,4
  
• 315: Constantine published the
  Edict of Milan which extended religious tolerance to Christians. Jews lost many rights with this edict. They were no longer permitted to live in Jerusalem, or to proselytize.
  
• 325: The Council of Nicea decided to separate the celebration of Easter from the Jewish Passover. They stated: "For it is unbecoming beyond measure that on this holiest of festivals we should follow the customs of the Jews. Henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious people...We ought not, therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews...our worship follows a...more convenient course...we desire dearest brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the Jews...How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are almost certainly blinded."
  
• 337: Christian Emperor Constantius created a law which made the marriage of a Jewish man to a Christian punishable by death.
  
• 339: Converting to Judaism became a criminal offense.
  
• 343-381: The Laodicean Synod approved Cannon XXXVIII: "It is not lawful [for Christians] to receive unleavened bread from the Jews, nor to be partakers of their impiety." 5
  
• 367 - 376: St. Hilary of Poitiers referred to Jews as a perverse people who God has cursed forever. St. Ephroem refers to synagogues as brothels.
  
• 379-395: Emperor Theodosius the Great permitted the destruction of synagogues if it served a religious purpose. Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire at this time.
  
• 380: The bishop of Milan was responsible for the burning of a synagogue; he referred to it as "an act pleasing to God."
  
• 415: The Bishop of Alexandria, St. Cyril, expelled the Jews from that Egyptian city.
  
• 415: St. Augustine wrote "The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot, who sells the Lord for silver. The Jew can never understand the Scriptures and forever will bear the guilt for the death of Jesus."
  
• 418: St. Jerome, who created the Vulgate translation of the Bible wrote of a synagogue: "If you call it a brothel, a den of vice, the Devil's refuge, Satan's fortress, a place to deprave the soul, an abyss of every conceivable disaster or whatever you will, you are still saying less than it deserves."
  
• 489 - 519: Christian mobs destroyed the synagogues in Antioch, Daphne (near Antioch) and Ravenna.
  
• 528: Emperor Justinian (527-564) passed the Justinian Code. It prohibited Jews from building synagogues, reading the Bible in Hebrew, assemble in public, celebrate Passover before Easter, and testify against Christians in court. 3
  
• 535: The "Synod of Claremont decreed that Jews could not hold public office or have authority over Christians." 3
  
• 538: The 3rd and 4th Councils of Orleans prohibited Jews from appearing in public during the Easter season. Canon XXX decreed that "From the Thursday before Easter for four days, Jews may not appear in the company of Christians." 5 Marriages between Christians and Jews were prohibited. Christians were prohibited from converting to Judaism. 4
  
• 561: The bishop of Uzes expelled Jews from his diocese in France.
  
• 612: Jews were not allowed to own land, to be farmers or enter certain trades.
  
• 613: Very serious persecution began in Spain. Jews were given the options of either leaving Spain or converting to Christianity. Jewish children over 6 years of age were taken from their parents and given a Christian education
  
• 692: Cannnon II of the Quinisext Council stated: "Let no one in the priestly order nor any layman eat the unleavened bread of the Jews, nor have any familiar intercourse with them, nor summon them in illness, nor receive medicines from them, nor bathe with them; but if anyone shall take in hand to do so, if he is a cleric, let him be deposed, but if a layman, let him be cut off." 5
  
• 694: The 17th Church Council of Toledo, Spain defined Jews as the serfs of the prince. This was based, in part, on the beliefs by Chrysostom, Origen, Jerome, and other Church Fathers that God punished the Jews with perpetual slavery because of their alleged responsibility for the execution of Jesus. 5
  
• 722: Leo III outlawed Judaism. Jews were baptized against their will.
  
• 855: Jews were exiled from Italy.
  
• 1050: The Synod of Narbonne prohibited Christians from living in the homes of Jews.
  
• 1078: "Pope Gregory VII decreed that Jews could not hold office or be superiors to Christians." 6
  
• 1078: The Synod of Gerona forced Jews to pay church taxes.
  
• 1096: The First Crusade was launched in this year. Although the prime goal of the crusades was to liberate Jerusalem from the Muslims, Jews were a second target. As the soldiers passed through Europe on the way to the Holy Land, large numbers of Jews were challenged: "Christ-killers, embrace the Cross or die!" 12,000 Jews in the Rhine Valley alone were killed in the first Crusade. This behavior continued for 8 additional crusades until the 9th in 1272.
  
• 1099: The Crusaders forced all of the Jews of Jerusalem into a central synagogue and set it on fire. Those who tried to escape were forced back into the burning building.
  
• 1121: Jews were exiled from Flanders (now part of present-day Belgium)
  
• 1130: Some Jews in London allegedly killed a sick man. The Jewish people in the city were required to pay 1 million marks as compensation.
  
• 1146: The Second Crusade began. A French Monk, Rudolf, called for the destruction of the Jews.
  
• 1179: Canon 24 of the Third Lateran Council stated: "Jews should be slaves to Christians and at the same time treated kindly due of humanitarian considerations." Canon 26 stated that "the testimony of Christians against Jews is to be preferred in all causes where they use their own witnesses against Christians." 7
  
• 1180: The French King of France, Philip Augustus, arbitrarily seized all Jewish property and expelled the Jews from the country. There was no legal justification for this action. They were allowed to sell all movable possessions, but their land and houses were stolen by the king.
  
• 1189: Jews were persecuted in England. The Crown claimed all Jewish possessions. Most of their houses were burned.
  

[And it continues from 1200 to the present day, see here (1200-1800) and here (1800-Present)]

Ontario Center For Religious Tolerance || An overview of the persecution of Jews for the past 2,000 years

And I believe they were wrong for doing so.

[Mister Agenda]

I hope this thread doesn't show the moral behavior of a typical atheist.  That would be sad, indeed.  From ridicule tactics to straw man debate tactics.  To using the word creatard which mocks retards to referring to other humans as an it.  I am glad I am not part of this 3 percent world view in America.

I hope this thread doesn't show the moral behavior of a typical theist. That would be sad, indeed. I remind myself that we have comparably more reasonable theist posters, and you are not a representative sample. You're not alone though. There's Lil Rik.

[CDF47]

I did go off topic here.  Still sticking with the US constitutional republic.

That's all right, your original topic sucks donkey balls.

Though the whole "the socializum is teh evuls" is, on balance, worse.  Yes, we get that you're a creatard rtc who is constitutionally and intellectually capable of thinking for yourself or making choices in your best interests, but no need to whip your stupidity out of your pants every chance you get and start hitting us with it like it was a length of Wavin.

More ridicule which is obviously your best argument.

[I_am_not_mafia]

You know how time travel is possible as Einstein discovered.  This fact is used in all GPS systems to keep their coordinates or else you would be driving off into the ocean, so it has to be accounted for.  I think time travel is possible because God can see all of time; beginning to end, since He is the alpha and the omega.  I don't think anything of any mass will be able to travel in time but I think that is the reason it is designed into the universe.  Just some food for thought.

I doubt finding out how wrong you got this will lower your opinion of how great you are at assessing science even a smidge. That would require self-honesty.

OK, maybe he is a poe.

[Mister Agenda]

Picture looks like the army of atheists I've been debating in this thread.  I am going to save this one for future reference.

What is it with the theists who walk in to our house and whine about being outnumbered?

[CDF47]

I hope this thread doesn't show the moral behavior of a typical atheist.  That would be sad, indeed.  From ridicule tactics to straw man debate tactics.  To using the word creatard which mocks retards to referring to other humans as an it.  I am glad I am not part of this 3 percent world view in America.

I hope this thread doesn't show the moral behavior of a typical theist. That would be sad, indeed. I  remind myself that we have comparably more reasonable theist posters, and you are not a representative sample. You're not alone though. There's Lil Rik.

I have not said one bad thing about anyone in here despite all the ridicule and name calling,...  I simply argue my points.  We have two different world views on religion and politics.  Neither of us seem to be swaying the other so I just hope the lurkers can see through the nonsense debate tactics used; again, ridicule, straw man, spin,...

---

Picture looks like the army of atheists I've been debating in this thread.  I am going to save this one for future reference.

What is it with the theists who walk in to our house and whine about being outnumbered?

I wasn't whining.  I don't care if there were a million atheists on this site.  You can't defeat truth in an argument.

[Mister Agenda]

My point was either the process is directed by a Creator or undirected by anyone.  There are only two options here.  That is not a straw man.

Or directed by the unconscious, blind, but dumbly intelligent power of natural selection, which can do one intelligent thing by brute force: discriminate against variations that are reproductively less successful than their competitors and thereby input information about the environment into genomes. No limit but the laws of nature have been found that limit this force.

[CDF47]

My point was either the process is directed by a Creator or undirected by anyone.  There are only two options here.  That is not a straw man.

Or directed by the unconscious, blind, but dumbly intelligent power of natural selection, which can do one intelligent thing by brute force: discriminate against variations that are reproductively less successful than their competitors and thereby input information about the environment into genomes. No limit but the laws of nature have been found that limit this force.

Where does the information come from?  It must come from a super intelligence. Still only two options. Either intelligently or not intelligently designed.

[I_am_not_mafia]

Where does the information come from?  It must come from a super intelligence.

Why must it?