My view and reasons for them. Atheist and Christians welcome here. (short)

[Quick]

I do not mean to be condescending at all. I can kinda sorta see how you could see that, I guess?

I'm an Enneagram 4 (451 tritype) so thinking I am different is part of how I cope.

Like I said, you came charging in with all sorts of generalizations about people. Your first interaction with me was bizarre, and you were needlessly antagonistic (ironically while complaining about other people being the same) while seeminginly having me all figured out already.

It seems like you've now realized that your pre-conceived ideas about atheists were off the mark, and the push-back has made you more thoughtful. I hope to see that continue. I'm glad you don't mean to be condescending; I don't either. I call things how I see them, but I can be wrong in my assessments.

What you say about my view of atheist changing slightly is def true since I didn't know the proper definition until someone pointed it out to me. I now find the stance of atheism not as haughty and arrogant as I originally thought, though I think it still largely comes with the territory. That said, ofc you have to go on a case by case basis.

I at least try and make an attempt to correct myself when I have been proven wrong. I don't always because sometimes my ego gets in the way, but at least I can admit that as well.

---

@robvalue, I had to search my notifications to see where I first engaged with you. I think what I was commenting on and what you responded to somewhat fits in with my beliefs so I might talk about that if it comes up. And no, I was not trying to be antagonistic. I was just trying to show that the scientific method might not be as fool proof as most people believe.

[robvalue]

Well, that's some progress, but you've clearly still got some ways to go before understanding what atheism actually is (or rather what it isn't). It's simply a lack of belief in God. It's being "not a theist". You said yourself you're not a theist; if so, you're an atheist. You can call yourself something else like I say, but by common definitions, that's what you are. Some atheists are convinced in the absence of gods, some are just undecided. This last category is frequently mislabeled as "agnosticism".

If you have found atheists to be a certain way in your own experience, then that's fine. But try not to assume any particular one is going to conform to that. I have no idea what "comes with the territory" means. It would be like saying a certain characteristic comes with the territory of not believing in Bigfoot or the tooth fairy.

[Quick]

If you have found atheists to be a certain way in your own experience, then that's fine. But try not to assume any particular one is going to conform to that. I have no idea what "comes with the territory" means. It would be like saying a certain characteristic comes with the territory of not believing in Bigfoot or the tooth fairy.

I disagree. There is a lot invested in "not being a theist" especially in the west. Possibly not as much in European countries, but I have noticed that certain traits can be associated with people more often that not in atheists. One such trait would be low scores in agreeableness from the big 5. That's about as empirical as i can make it at this point without throwing shit at people.

I said I was not a theist because I associate believing in an organized religion that believes there is a one all powerful God, and I don't want to put myself in that category. I don't want to put myself in the atheist category either. The reason for both is the same - I find their character(s) to be not something I agree with. The actual character traits are different ofc, but it falls under the same overarching category of character.

[robvalue]

You continue to over-complicate the definitions and add your own experiences and logical conclusions to them.

Theist means "a person who believes in God".

Atheist means "a person who lacks belief in God (a person who is not a theist)".

Everyone is one or the other, and it tells you absolutely nothing else about them.

The choice is yours, if you continue to strawman either position then you're going to run into problems here. I'll leave it at that.

PS: these words are merely descriptions of a person's mental state regarding this one issue. That's all they are. They're not clubs you join, or sets of values you pledge allegiance to. If you use a definition of atheism that includes all these extra things you want it to, then you're not talking about the same thing as us.

[Quick]

I suppose it might help if you told me some of the different kinds of atheists.

[ignoramus]

"Which, sure, but there is no evidence that life should exist either and yet here we are."

Uhmm... have you looked in the mirror lately ... Aren't you exhibit A in the flesh? Is that not evidence?

[robvalue]

I suppose it might help if you told me some of the different kinds of atheists.

Well, there's three four categories, depending on how strong the stance is the particular atheist takes.

Agnostic atheist 1: Has no belief in God, but has no belief that there isn't a God either. Undecided. This is all you can assume about any particular atheist unless they tell you otherwise. (Sometimes referred to as "weak atheism"). Probably the most common atheist.

Agnostic atheist 2: Believes there is no God, but doesn't claim to know for sure. (Sometimes referred to as "strong atheism").

Gnostic atheist: Claims to know for sure there is no God. (Also sometimes referred to as "strong atheism", so be careful.) By far the least common atheist, in my experience.

That's it. There's no requirements to believe anything else, to hold any opinions on anything, or support any particular causes.

Of course, every individual atheist will have their own beliefs and values, just as theists will, so it's best to simply ask rather than assume.

PS: I forgot one category, which is ironic since I'm in it.

Ignostic atheist: Thinks the term "God" is essentially meaningless, and is too vague and tailored to individual theists to make any conclusions about. It's unfalsifiable at best and incoherent at worst.

---

I may as well complete the set while I'm at it. The remaining two categories people can be in are:

Agnostic theist: Believes there is a god but doesn't claim to know for sure.

Gnostic theist: Claims to know for sure there is a god.

[Quick]

"Which, sure, but there is no evidence that life should exist either and yet here we are."

Uhmm... have you looked in the mirror lately ... Aren't you exhibit A in the flesh? Is that not evidence?

If people thought about the implications of what I say/type, I don't think I would be as misunderstood. Right, I am here which means life exists. I was talking about how life began. We don't know much about why we are here to begin with. I ment in a big picture way of looking at what evidence we have to justify our existence. No, I am not saying "God dune it" I am simply pointing out that life is something that can't yet be explained. As such, when the topic was brought up (I really wish you could have actually quoted me so I could see the context of what we were talking about specifically), I was making a point that was the other side of the coin. It was an analogy from the PoV that life was the same as the other thing that was brought up. It was for compare and contrast.

I suppose it might help if you told me some of the different kinds of atheists.

Well, there's three categories, depending on how strong the stance is the particular atheist takes.

Agnostic atheist 1: Has no belief in God, but has no belief that there isn't a God either. Undecided. This is all you can assume about any particular atheist unless they tell you otherwise. (Sometimes referred to as "weak atheism"). Probably the most common atheist.

Agnostic atheist 2: Believes there is no God, but doesn't claim to know for sure. (Sometimes referred to as "strong atheism").

Gnostic atheist: Claims to know for sure there is no God. (Also sometime referred to as "strong atheism", so be careful.) By far the least common atheist, in my experience.

That's it. There's no requirements to believe anything else, to hold any opinions on anything, or support any particular causes.

Of course, every individual atheist will have their own beliefs and values, just as theists will, so it's best to simply ask rather than assume.

PS: I forgot one category, which is ironic since I'm in it.

Ignostic atheist: Thinks the term "God" is essentially meaningless, and is too vague and tailored to individual theists to make any conclusions about. It's unfalsifiable at best and incoherent at worst.

Thanks, this paints a better picture for me because I can imagine what these different atheists are like in some respects.

I guess when I think of atheist, I generally think of someone like Dawkins and as the toolbag that he is, he comes across like a right prick. There have been other debates I have been in with atheist that come across this way as well. It think it's probably that the people who make the most extreme stances tend to care the most about their stances. Otherwise there's really no motivation to "fight" against someone who believes something different than you.

[surreptitious57]

I am an agnostic atheist but I am also an apatheist so that is another category
An apatheist is somebody who does not believe in God but does not care whether or not he exists
The reason I am an apatheist is because his existence cannot categorically be proven or disproven

[Quick]

I am an agnostic atheist but I am also an apatheist so that is another category
An apatheist is somebody who does not believe in God but does not care whether or not he exists
The reason I am an apatheist is because his existence cannot categorically be proven or disproven

I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you know what you believe and it makes sense, but I don't understand how you can be agnostic and not believe a god exists. Otherwise, thanks for telling me about the apatheist bit.