Race and IQs

[paulpablo]

I have no idea what you're talking about, wasn't commenting on that, and wasn't addressing my posts to you.

Don't care, I was addressing you.

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The most educated ones are leaving the shithole?

 Doesn't explain why they are more educated then the citizens of their destination.

If you have a shit hole and clever people are in there they'll want to leave.  They'll be the best of that bunch.  In the non shit hole place the people who are just born there could be anyone.  They didn't have to be clever to be born there. And there's more of them.  More very stupid people, more stupid people, more average people. So it does pretty much explain why they'd be smarter than just your average, born in a non shit hole, person.  As opposed to the born in a shit hole and smart enough to get a way out person.

But that's just an off the cuff explanation I don't know if that's what's happening but it doesn't seem like a mystery to me.  It could be a number of reasons.

[Alexmahone]

I don't think that anyone would disagree that genetics play a role in intelligence, but certainly so does environment.  Someone with zero or close-to-zero access to educational resources, or brought up in a culture that heavily indoctrinates certain ideas, etc, would also be expected to suffer intelligence-wise, even with good genes.

Genetics and race are two completely different things.

Could parents that have high IQ's have a chance of passing those genes down? Sure, but what has that got to do with race?

I've pointed out repeatedly that of all the immigrant groups that come to the US, the African immigrants are the most educated and more educated that US citizens overall, and their whole continent is referred to as a Sh*ithole...

Explain that?

I encourage you to read this article Race and genetics from your favorite source: Wikipedia.

As for the education of African immigrants, is there a single African university in the top 500 worldwide? I'd suspect that their degrees may be worth less than American high school diplomas.

[Anomalocaris]

I don't think that anyone would disagree that genetics play a role in intelligence, but certainly so does environment.  Someone with zero or close-to-zero access to educational resources, or brought up in a culture that heavily indoctrinates certain ideas, etc, would also be expected to suffer intelligence-wise, even with good genes.

Genetics and race are two completely different things.

Could parents that have high IQ's have a chance of passing those genes down? Sure, but what has that got to do with race?

I've pointed out repeatedly that of all the immigrant groups that come to the US, the African immigrants are the most educated and more educated that US citizens overall, and their whole continent is referred to as a Sh*ithole...

Explain that?

To the degree one believes IQ is a useful indicator of intelligence,  influence of generics on Intelligence seems more complicated than smart parents make for smart kids.

Evidence have been published suggesting the IQ of the parents and the environment of upbringing has less influence upon the IQ of the offspring than one might think, yet the average IQ exhibited by people of similar ethnic background has a greater influence on the IQ of the offspring than one might suppose.

Let’s say there are two different large ethnic groups with different average IQ, group A is 105, group B is 95.  

If we select many sets of couples from each of group with similarly outstanding IQs, say around 140 for both parents, the published results suggest of the offsprings, those from couple from group A will still have IQs averaging close to 105 while those from couples from group B will still have IQs averaging closer to 95, despite the fact that their parents all had similar IQs of 140.

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Genetics and race are two completely different things.

Could parents that have high IQ's have a chance of passing those genes down? Sure, but what has that got to do with race?

I've pointed out repeatedly that of all the immigrant groups that come to the US, the African immigrants are the most educated and more educated that US citizens overall, and their whole continent is referred to as a Sh*ithole...

Explain that?

I encourage you to read this article Race and genetics from your favorite source: Wikipedia.

As for the education of African immigrants, is there a single African university in the top 500 worldwide? I'd suspect that their degrees may be worth less than American high school diplomas.

Between AD 600 and AD 1000, would one find many of the world’s elite centers of learning and culture in the western world?

No.

Yet here they are now.

So what is your point?


Btw, it is hard to imagine any diploma being indicative of less academic attainment than the diploma Given out by some American high schools.

[Huggy Bear]

What causes one to advance the proposition is irrelevant.  Something that is true remains true even if spoken for the most absurd reasons or out of the greatest malice.   Whether that thing actually is true must be evaluated based on evidence that can be used to support it.

What truth has been established?

[vulcanlogician]

I fail to see IQ as anything but an arbitrary measure. The body is the greatest wisdom and intelligence. IQ, if it can genuinely be gauged at all, is merely a function of the body.

Nietzsche has this to say:

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On the Despisers of the Body

I want to speak of the despisers of the body. I would not have them learn and teach differently, but merely say farewell to their own bodies --- and thus become silent.

“Body am I, and soul” – thus speaks the child. And why should one not speak like children?
But the awakened and knowing say: body am I entirely, and nothing else; and soul is only a word for something about the body.

The body is a great reason, a plurality with one sense, a war and peace, a herd and a shepherd. An instrument of your body is also your little reason, my brother, which you call “spirit” – a little instrument and toy of your great reason.

“I,” you say, and are proud of the word. But greater is that in which you do not wish to have faith – your body and its great reason: that does not say “I,” but does “I.”
. . .

Behind your thoughts and feelings, my brother, there stands a mighty ruler, an unknown sage – whose name is self. In your body he dwells; he is your body.

There is more reason in your body than in your best wisdom. And who knows why your body needs precisely your best wisdom?

Your self laughs at your ego and at its bold leaps. “What are these leaps and flights of thought to me?” It says to itself. . . . The self says to the ego, “Feel pain here!” Then the ego suffers and thinks how it might suffer no more ---- and this is why it is made to think. The self says to the ego, “Feel pleasure here!” Then the ego is pleased and thinks how it might often be pleased again – and that is why it is made to think.
. .

I want to speak to the despisers of the body. It is their respect that begets their contempt. What is it that created respect and contempt and worth and will? The creative self created respect and contempt; it created pleasure and pain. The creative body created the spirit as a hand for its will.

Even in your folly and contempt, you despisers of the body, you serve your self. I say unto you: your self itself wants to die and turns away from life. It is no longer capable of what it would do above all else: to create beyond itself. That is what it would do above all else, that is its fervent wish.

But now it is too late for it to do this: so your self wants to go under, O despisers of the body. Your self wants to go under, and that is why you have become despisers of the body! For you are no longer able to create beyond yourselves.

And that is why you are angry with life and the earth. An unconscious envy speaks out of the squint-eyed glance of your contempt.

I shall not go your way, O despisers of the body! You are no bridge to the ubermench!

Thus spoke Zarathustra.

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[Rev. Rye]

So, it's The Bell Curve you're using. Explains so much.

That was obvious from the OP. It took me 30 seconds to realise it, 29.5 of which were trying to remember the name of the book.

The numbers threw me off a bit, mostly because I didn't remember what numbers they used there.

And, also, since his name-dropping Murphy kind of distracted me, I feel like I should mention this: it took a long time for me to find ANY reference to a "Greenwich Standard" IQ that wasn't directly used by racialist scientists. It seems that IQ tests are scored by the average of a representative sample of those who will eventually take it, not by the average IQ of people in Britain. I found a number of articles explaining how IQ tests are centered, but not one mentioned that they use the average score for Britain as their standard. It seemed that the scientists you used mentioned did use that standard, but this only adds to the eyebrow-raising aspects of the research that make it suspect. Well, at least they didn't use America as their standard.

[Anomalocaris]

What causes one to advance the proposition is irrelevant.  Something that is true remains true even if spoken for the most absurd reasons or out of the greatest malice.   Whether that thing actually is true must be evaluated based on evidence that can be used to support it.

What truth has been established?

You should scale back your presumption, stick to the topic, learn the method for establishing facts and focus on establishing facts.

Truth is for those who don’t know facts but pretend to somehow still just know.

[Huggy Bear]

I guess someone never explained to you that truth and fact are synonymous...

Way to dodge the question though.

[Minimalist]

Whenever someone posts a source I always check to see if there is an obvious bias.  For example, creatards citing the "institute of creation research" which is 3 lies for the price of one.

Pizzagate came to us from Breitbart - not the Washington Post.

I frequently post stories from Rawstory which is a decidedly progressive news gathering source.  However, they normally include a link to the original story.  Many is the time I have read the original story and decided that the headline that RS wrote for it was a bridge too far.  But those don't get posted.

Unfortunately we live in an age when any maniac can post something and one had damn well better take a few moments to evaluate the source.

My only complaint with my pal Huggy here is that he refuses to apply that same skepticism to his bible!

[Drich]

I know this is a taboo topic but you made a choice when you clicked on this thread after reading the title...

I have encountered research by several reputed scientists that says that the mean IQ's of different races are different. They are (for the major races):

East Asians: 105
Whites: 99
South Asians / North Africans: 84
Africans: 70

Mixed races usually have IQ's that lie between the composite races. Blacks in the US have a higher mean (85) than Africans due to a combination of European ancestry and better nutrition.

(There are also scientists who claim that the mean IQ's of different races are exactly equal but fail to provide any evidence supporting this.)

My question: Does merely believing in the validity of such research make a person a racist? Is there any objection to this being taught at schools or universities? For the record, I belong to one of the intellectually inferior races, so I may be being a little slow...

Well yes especially after you have given the fact out the IQ difference between africans and north americans of african decent. there according to your own research is a 5% difference. which means it is not race but culture and or societal influences that determine IQ yet you persist on race as being the determining factor. again if race was what determined intelligence then society nor culture would have any bearing on intelligence,  yet there i a 5% difference in the members of the sae race but of a different community.