Illegal Immigrants

[Losty]

“Sudden immigration crisis” LOL
That’s what politicians want us to think so they can use immigration as part of their platform. Illegal immigration is down a lot from where it used to be. I would hardly call it a sudden crisis.

[henryp]

So an old friend posted this on Facebook. This could work.

I was thinking about the sudden immigration crisis and believe I have a solution. I’d get as many charter buses as I could And when these people show up, load the buses and start driving north. Release them at the Canadian border and make sure they keep going in that direction. Our friends to the north are quick to criticize so if they can do a better job, let them do it!

People talk up Canada, but if you google Canada Illegal Immigration, you realize they are just as shitty.  The only difference is they have the US as a buffer, so it's not as big a problem.

[FlyingNarwhal]

Sounds good, but I think that implementing  it is a lot more complicated. Also many illegal immigrants come from places further down in Central America, and while impoverishment certainly plays a large part it’s not the only issue. I do think it’s a problem you can just throw money at and fix, and being a soveriegn nation it’s difficult to do mich else.

I’m sure their are charities that send money to Mexico however, if you are interested.

Why is it more complicated, we are currently just throwing money at it, and we don't have a solution to stop people from coming here. The only way to stop people from coming here is to get them to want to stay where they are. It's not a problem for for people in Central America either because we could do the same thing there or they can partner with Mexico, it's the simple idea of people helping people. Right now our genius idea's are bus people to Canada and Build a ridiculously expensive wall nether addresses the actual problem.

There's a lot of different factors if your talking improving Mexico's infrastructure. One thing we could definitely do to help would be ending the War on Drugs. That would go a long way to help dismantling the cartels in Mexico and in turn make it safer. We've also already tried working a deal with Mexico where we would send immigrants to them. They'll take back their own citizens but they won't take immigrants from other Central & South American countries.

Spending money on another country's infrastructure is a step too far though in my opinion, especially one that shares a border with us. The amount of money it would cost to make significant changes that would have some kind of impact would be astronomical. We're also talking about creating jobs in Mexico, if you're doing it right the US would basically be spending money to potentially have businesses leave the US or at the very least make us less competitive on a global scale.

You have to think, the whole reason people are angry about illegal immigrants coming to this country is because they are taking American jobs and not paying taxes. What your proposing is that the US should help to move American jobs to Mexico and we pay for it in our taxes as well. It would probably face way more opposition then illegal immigration already does.

[The Industrial Atheist]

Why is it more complicated, we are currently just throwing money at it, and we don't have a solution to stop people from coming here. The only way to stop people from coming here is to get them to want to stay where they are. It's not a problem for for people in Central America either because we could do the same thing there or they can partner with Mexico, it's the simple idea of people helping people. Right now our genius idea's are bus people to Canada and Build a ridiculously expensive wall nether addresses the actual problem.

There's a lot of different factors if your talking improving Mexico's infrastructure.  One thing we could definitely do to help would be ending the War on Drugs.  That would go a long way to help dismantling the cartels in Mexico and in turn make it safer.  We've also already tried working a deal with Mexico where we would send immigrants to them.  They'll take back their own citizens but they won't take immigrants from other Central & South American countries.

Spending money on another country's infrastructure is a step too far though in my opinion, especially one that shares a border with us.  The amount of money it would cost to make significant changes that would have some kind of impact would be astronomical.  We're also talking about creating jobs in Mexico, if you're doing it right the US would basically be spending money to potentially have businesses leave the US or at the very least make us less competitive on a global scale.

You have to think, the whole reason people are angry about illegal immigrants coming to this country is because they are taking American jobs and not paying taxes.  What your proposing is that the US should help to move American jobs to Mexico and we pay for it in our taxes as well.  It would probably face way more opposition then illegal immigration already does.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201...s-in-taxes

Immigrants illegally in the U.S. collectively contribute nearly $12 billion each year to state and local tax coffers, according to a new report that challenges recent election cycle rhetoric. 

http://immigrationimpact.com/2017/04/17/...pay-taxes/

Nationwide, undocumented immigrants pay an average of 8 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes, which is higher than the top 1 percent of taxpayers who pay 5.4 percent.

[henryp]

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201...s-in-taxes

Immigrants illegally in the U.S. collectively contribute nearly $12 billion each year to state and local tax coffers, according to a new report that challenges recent election cycle rhetoric. 

http://immigrationimpact.com/2017/04/17/...pay-taxes/

Nationwide, undocumented immigrants pay an average of 8 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes, which is higher than the top 1 percent of taxpayers who pay 5.4 percent.

IA, with the information that the US collects 12 billion a year from immigrants, what's the follow up question you should ask?

[LadyForCamus]

Why not just partner with Mexico and work towards improving it's infrastructure, that seems like the practical approach. The reason your getting so many people seeking asylum is because their families can't survive in Mexico, so no matter how many laws you pass people from Mexico are still going to try and get to the US. So why not address the problem and work towards improving Mexico so the people there don't have to flee to the US. This would not only solve the immigration issue it would also be a great humanitarian move.

The U.S. solving problems and helping people?  You’re cute. 😋

[Minimalist]

But allowing people to cross unchecked is not a good idea.

Are you impervious to facts, RR?  The people showing up at the border have a right under US law and International law to seek asylum.

Now I fully understand that you and your orange fuhrer are not interested in treaty obligations but there are actual US laws which distinguish between "refugees" and "immigrants."
The WLB is far too stupid to grasp the difference.  Are you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee_Ac...f_refugees

The Act recognizes that it has been the historic policy of the United States to respond to the urgent needs of persons subject to persecution in their homelands and to provide assistance, asylum, and resettlement opportunities to admitted refugees. The goal of the Refugee Act was to create a uniform procedure with which to provide these opportunities to refugees

It appears that the authors of the law did not understand the abject racism which governs so many 'Murricans.

[The Industrial Atheist]

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201...s-in-taxes

Immigrants illegally in the U.S. collectively contribute nearly $12 billion each year to state and local tax coffers, according to a new report that challenges recent election cycle rhetoric. 

http://immigrationimpact.com/2017/04/17/...pay-taxes/

Nationwide, undocumented immigrants pay an average of 8 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes, which is higher than the top 1 percent of taxpayers who pay 5.4 percent.

IA, with the information that the US collects 12 billion a year from immigrants, what's the follow up question you should ask?

Why do Faux news and right wing politicians have bullshit talking points?

To be clear, I don't want open borders, but I also don't like it when people wrongfully stigmatize vast groups of people. Some sources have an interest in making undocumented immigrants appear to be lazy, useless takers, because they want the voters to hate them instead of the government that redistributes the wealth from the bottom to the top and fails to do it's job competently.

[henryp]

IA, with the information that the US collects 12 billion a year from immigrants, what's the follow up question you should ask?

Why do Faux news and right wing politicians have bullshit talking points?

To be clear, I don't want open borders, but I also don't like it when people wrongfully stigmatize vast groups of people. Some sources have an interest in making undocumented immigrants appear to be lazy, useless takers, because they want the voters to hate them instead of the government that redistributes the wealth from the bottom to the top and fails to do it's job competently.

My followup question was "How much do the illegal immigrants cost the US?"  For example, if they cost 100 billion dollars, it's nice that many of them pay a bit of taxes, but it's a lot of trickery to frame them as a positive addition, if they are actually a negative.

Another complication, is who's paying that 12 billion.  Are they talking migrant workers from Mexico?  Or Asian IT workers overstaying their work visas?  

My real point being, that saying "Illegals pay in 12 billion a year in taxes, and 8%" is the most positive way to frame the issue.  But you should be interested in the information and context that isn't being presented, or is being buried at the end of the article.

[LadyForCamus]

What immigration crisis? We have more undocumented Mexican immigrants leaving than coming in, for the past few years. Faux News likes to ignore this and act like it isn't  a fact.

Yeah, that is my question every time I hear someone say it.  What, exactly, is the crisis?