I tried to warn the Bernie and Hillary busters.

[Brian37]

I hate this argument. 

Well, it's true. I'm Independent. Democrats don't automatically get my vote. They have to work for it.

If we as democrats want to clobber the GOP we have to play hardball. We have to take part. We can protect the private sector and get back to the policies of post WW2 that gave workers rights, that gave America stability. But we cannot do that if we allow the GOP to keep painting us as communists and anti patriotic. 

Democrats need the Independent votes. If they keep putting up more bank-owned politicians, they aren't going to get them.

Not my point. 

Of course a politician should work for your vote. 

I am talking about our apathy as voters since Reagan and that matters. It is easy to blame those in office. And even when we do get the person we want, we never get 100% of what we want. If politics is the art of compromise, and it is, voters as progressives and liberals have failed our politicians by apathy and purity tests.

GOP have not done that. They are far more organized and even when you have McCain rightfully call Putin a "KGB thug and murderer", you still have the majority of their party and their voters STILL support an asshole who suck's Putin's dick.

And again, it is easy to blame our politicians for being part of the problem, but if we don't put our politicians feet to the fire, they are forced to play the game the other side plays.

This is not one person, this is not one election. Our failure has been our apathy and lack of participation. If we are to beat the GOP we have to beat them at messaging and participation.

[downbeatplumb]

A globalist bank owned hawk with a very checkered past on race/lgbt issues isn't necessarily better.  Her supreme court nominees may be better.  But maybe we've got 100k troops on the ground in Syria trying to overthrow Assad.  Maybe she doesn't give tax cuts to corporations.  But she's signed trade deals making it preferable for corporations to do business elsewhere.  

It's fair for any individual to prefer her over Trump.  But it's also fair to conclude they are both a disaster for different reasons, and not support either.

It was a Kang and Kodos election.  Blaming people for not wanting to vote for Hillary is goofy.  Particularly for those who care a lot about unnecessary wars and globalism.

No it was a choice between a competent experienced politician and a self centred right wing imbecile and the US chose the joke.

Every time I think they cant sink lower somehow they manage it.

[Minimalist]

If they keep putting up more bank-owned politicians, they aren't going to get them.

That's the kind of thinking that got the WLB elected, Shel.  When you have a choice between the lesser of two evils it is still better to choose the lesser evil.  There is no perfection in our system.

[Chad32]

A globalist bank owned hawk with a very checkered past on race/lgbt issues isn't necessarily better.  Her supreme court nominees may be better.  But maybe we've got 100k troops on the ground in Syria trying to overthrow Assad.  Maybe she doesn't give tax cuts to corporations.  But she's signed trade deals making it preferable for corporations to do business elsewhere.  

It's fair for any individual to prefer her over Trump.  But it's also fair to conclude they are both a disaster for different reasons, and not support either.

It was a Kang and Kodos election.  Blaming people for not wanting to vote for Hillary is goofy.  Particularly for those who care a lot about unnecessary wars and globalism.

No it was a choice between a competent experienced politician and a self centered right wing imbecile and the US chose the joke.

Every time I think they cant sink lower somehow they manage it.

Not competent enough to beat Trump, apparently.

[ReptilianPeon]

Brian, today in Washington, you have one party that is totally unwilling to compromise and another party that is always ready to give the other party what they want. Can you guess which party is which? I wonder, is Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) saying: "I'm open to supporting Trump in 2020..." your idea of compromise? Why are Democrats like Joe Manchin openly saying that they may support Trump's re-election campaign?

Here's a quote from the article I linked to:

"Trump mocked Manchin behind closed doors in a meeting with Senate Republicans for excessively trying to hug him."

Why is Joe Manchin "excessively trying to hug" Donald Trump? Isn't Joe supposed to be part of the #Resistance? What happened Brian? Why are there Democrats bowing their heads to Trump?

As Kyle from Secular Talk shows, you literally have people whose Twitter username is literally "noTrump" claiming that "we need to give Joe a break and that he is full of good sense". Why? Behind your back there is a good chunk of Democrats who actually don't care that Donald Trump got elected; they will be fine no matter what happens to the economy. Once they leave Washington they can become lobbyists, etc.  






I'll link again to the New York Times article showing you how many Democrats voted for Trump appointments, because apparently you missed it. Go down the list and see how many of your beloved Democrats voted for Donald Trump's cronies and shysters. You can do something about the corruption you know: https://www.wolf-pac.com/

We are made up of people from all walks of life: engineers, military veterans, doctors, accountants, business owners, farmers, students, lawyers, scientists, mechanics, office managers, teachers–everyday people working together to make our government accountable to the people. Together, we will add a 28th amendment to the U.S. Constitution that restores Free and Fair Elections in America. Join us and let's make history together!

Wikpedia has a handy table listing the states that Wolf-Pac has already had success in - including in upper house of the deeply Red state of Missouri (which surprised me):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_PAC

As somebody who supports free and fair elections (and wants big money out of politics), I have to say that Hilary Clinton an enemy of mine. I understand Donald Trump's and Hilary Clinton's crimes are not equal and naturally I'd expect to see Donald Trump sentenced to more time behind bars then her. However, because the rich and powerful are generally protected in the USA I don't expect either of them to face any jail time whatsoever. Of course, each day Donald keeps making more and more enemies (due to his sheer stupidity) so maybe he will be put in jail after all, who knows?

[Shell B]

If they keep putting up more bank-owned politicians, they aren't going to get them.

That's the kind of thinking that got the WLB elected, Shel.  When you have a choice between the lesser of two evils it is still better to choose the lesser evil.  There is no perfection in our system.

I didn't have a choice between the lesser of two evils. The two-party system makes us think that's our choice. It's not, unless people keep forcing it to be. I didn't have to, nor did I, vote for either of them. If there really were no other choice, I'd have voted Democrat. I had a choice. Democrats are mad that I didn't vote for their candidate, as if I had some obligation to. I didn't.

[Minimalist]

And where you are it didn't matter. But in swing states a vote for some asshole who has no chance of winning is simply wasting your time and helping the biggest asshole win.

[Shell B]

And where you are it didn't matter. But in swing states a vote for some asshole who has no chance of winning is simply wasting your time and helping the biggest asshole win.

Then democrats will have to do better to woo swing states. That’s not my problem. I also didn’t vote for an asshole. The democrats and republicans did.