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RE: Just a theory
July 9, 2018 at 7:21 am
(July 8, 2018 at 11:56 pm)kbultra Wrote: I know this is very far fetched but hear me out. I was thinking about religion (I am newly atheist) and thought that maybe religion was originally made to keep early humans in order. Before police and jail and law at all. Think about it, if you couldn't keep people under control and there were no laws, what would you do to keep people from killing and stealing? I know what I would do. I would come up with a story in which people who do bad and immoral things get punished after they die, and people who do great and kind things live in a perfect place after they die. Sound familiar? I honestly believe that religion could have originated from an early human form of "law"
I would love to hear your thoughts.
Kindest regards,
Kb
I don't think that the facts fit your premises in the case of the Jewish / Christian traditions. Perhaps it has been used this way by some, but it doesn't fit the foundational core of these religions.
Even if this is not the case, would it be fair to turn this type of thinking around, and speculate that the reason for atheism is that people just want to be immoral? Are you an atheist because you want to kill and steal without consequence (so long as you can get away with it)?
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
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RE: Just a theory
July 9, 2018 at 7:30 am
OP: Man also apparently wanted/needed answers for things that they didn't understand.
Where did everything come from: god did it.
Who made me sick: god did it.
Why did our crops fail: god did it.
Why did god do it: Man is either good or bad.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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RE: Just a theory
July 9, 2018 at 7:43 am
(July 9, 2018 at 7:21 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (July 8, 2018 at 11:56 pm)kbultra Wrote: I know this is very far fetched but hear me out. I was thinking about religion (I am newly atheist) and thought that maybe religion was originally made to keep early humans in order. Before police and jail and law at all. Think about it, if you couldn't keep people under control and there were no laws, what would you do to keep people from killing and stealing? I know what I would do. I would come up with a story in which people who do bad and immoral things get punished after they die, and people who do great and kind things live in a perfect place after they die. Sound familiar? I honestly believe that religion could have originated from an early human form of "law"
I would love to hear your thoughts.
Kindest regards,
Kb
I don't think that the facts fit your premises in the case of the Jewish / Christian traditions. Perhaps it has been used this way by some, but it doesn't fit the foundational core of these religions.
Even if this is not the case, would it be fair to turn this type of thinking around, and speculate that the reason for atheism is that people just want to be immoral? Are you an atheist because you want to kill and steal without consequence (so long as you can get away with it)?
Immoral is buying a book with an authoritarian lead character whom doesn't have to answer to anyone, can do whatever they want to you without consent.
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RE: Just a theory
July 9, 2018 at 9:00 am
(July 9, 2018 at 7:21 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (July 8, 2018 at 11:56 pm)kbultra Wrote: I know this is very far fetched but hear me out. I was thinking about religion (I am newly atheist) and thought that maybe religion was originally made to keep early humans in order. Before police and jail and law at all. Think about it, if you couldn't keep people under control and there were no laws, what would you do to keep people from killing and stealing? I know what I would do. I would come up with a story in which people who do bad and immoral things get punished after they die, and people who do great and kind things live in a perfect place after they die. Sound familiar? I honestly believe that religion could have originated from an early human form of "law"
I would love to hear your thoughts.
Kindest regards,
Kb
I don't think that the facts fit your premises in the case of the Jewish / Christian traditions.
That's because you are oblivious to the Book Of Romans
Quote:"Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason." etc.
especially:
Quote:"This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing."
You heard it: pay your taxes Christian bitches.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Just a theory
July 9, 2018 at 9:35 am
(July 9, 2018 at 7:21 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (July 8, 2018 at 11:56 pm)kbultra Wrote: I know this is very far fetched but hear me out. I was thinking about religion (I am newly atheist) and thought that maybe religion was originally made to keep early humans in order. Before police and jail and law at all. Think about it, if you couldn't keep people under control and there were no laws, what would you do to keep people from killing and stealing? I know what I would do. I would come up with a story in which people who do bad and immoral things get punished after they die, and people who do great and kind things live in a perfect place after they die. Sound familiar? I honestly believe that religion could have originated from an early human form of "law"
I would love to hear your thoughts.
Kindest regards,
Kb
I don't think that the facts fit your premises in the case of the Jewish / Christian traditions. Perhaps it has been used this way by some, but it doesn't fit the foundational core of these religions.
Even if this is not the case, would it be fair to turn this type of thinking around, and speculate that the reason for atheism is that people just want to be immoral? Are you an atheist because you want to kill and steal without consequence (so long as you can get away with it)? According to the biblical fairy tale it was the religious twits who were the killers and thieves. Need examples?
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RE: Just a theory
July 9, 2018 at 12:40 pm
(July 9, 2018 at 9:00 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: (July 9, 2018 at 7:21 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I don't think that the facts fit your premises in the case of the Jewish / Christian traditions.
That's because you are oblivious to the Book Of Romans
Quote:"Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason." etc.
especially:
Quote:"This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing."
You heard it: pay your taxes Christian bitches.
No, I think the whole of scriptures is good. What you quoted isn’t what the OP described, and it’s not what the Gospel is about. I do pay taxes though, for your information.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
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RE: Just a theory
July 9, 2018 at 12:55 pm
(This post was last modified: July 9, 2018 at 12:55 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
OP: more of a hypothesis...a poorly defined and unfalsifiable one at that.
<insert profound quote here>
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RE: Just a theory
July 9, 2018 at 2:57 pm
(July 9, 2018 at 12:40 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (July 9, 2018 at 9:00 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: That's because you are oblivious to the Book Of Romans
especially:
You heard it: pay your taxes Christian bitches.
What you quoted isn’t what the OP described, and it’s not what the Gospel is about. I do pay taxes though, for your information.
Why is it not what OP described? Just because you ignore it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
(July 9, 2018 at 12:40 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I do pay taxes though, for your information.
Wow, so you're also against tax breaks for the rich?
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Just a theory
July 9, 2018 at 3:06 pm
Quote:Think about it, if you couldn't keep people under control and there were no laws, what would you do to keep people from killing and stealing?
Actually we still have examples today of what people do in situations like those you mentioned.
A mob gets together and kills the wrong-doer. I suspect that is a pretty effective mechanism for social control. Better than any fucking imaginary god tales.
https://news.sky.com/story/mob-in-india-...l-11258788
Quote:Mob in India kills men accused of rape and murder of five-year-old girl
These guys probably did need killing.
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RE: Just a theory
July 9, 2018 at 3:15 pm
(July 8, 2018 at 11:56 pm)kbultra Wrote: I know this is very far fetched but hear me out. I was thinking about religion (I am newly atheist) and thought that maybe religion was originally made to keep early humans in order. Before police and jail and law at all. Think about it, if you couldn't keep people under control and there were no laws, what would you do to keep people from killing and stealing? I know what I would do. I would come up with a story in which people who do bad and immoral things get punished after they die, and people who do great and kind things live in a perfect place after they die. Sound familiar? I honestly believe that religion could have originated from an early human form of "law"
I would love to hear your thoughts.
Kindest regards,
Kb
Glob...
Ok let's say this was the reason..
Now let's look at the jews.
From adam to aberham thought to his son joseph and all the time in captivity there was no law.
Religion without rules for the 1st 1/3 of our knowing God. if religion was about control then why no seat belt rules for the first 1/3 of our time?
Then the jews under egypt obeyed the rules of egypt... then they went out from egypt and asked for said rules. when they got them they were counter what the people expected or wanted. So if there is no God who wants wills or obeys rules they don't want? rules counter what anyone to that point has ever known??
Then FF a few thousand years and here comes Jesus Again changing everything. Jesus introduces rules that completely upset and change religion forever. even jews today do not worship as they did then... Then again why did Jesus change the rules so as to get the romans all pissed off at the christians and slaughter them?
If the state was responsible for make rules and assigning them to god to control people why then would the state have it state sponcered god make rules against hat the roman government wants? In other words if rme was incharge of religion why did christian religion have so many rules that pissed off ceaser? why not mae jesus mae christians follow roman law?
Why then as well were so many willing to obey god over rome if rome was crucifying people who did not obey rome, yet people died this horrible death anyway?
Now comes the dark ages the only point where you arguement might work...
But then come Martian luther (not ML King) but the original Martian luther who was a roman catholic monk who translated the bible and discovered over 100 instances of out right blaspheme the catholic church was involved in, in it's day to day where decrees from the pope directly contradict the teaching of Jesus Himself in the bible. and then he pens all of that down and nails his 95 thesis to the church door!
Again which breaks the church's back and fractures it into 1000 or actual 34K pieces supposedly.
Again if the church or religion is about being controlled then why is the history of the church namly god's direct dealing with the church always end up in destroying the power religion has over it's people.
Not to mention all the time Jesus says He hates religion, and foolish and blind religious teachers. He had so much contempt for stupid religious people they got together and killed him.
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