Afterlife vs Not

[lilyannerose]

Perhaps belief in the afterlife is the result of how many thousands of years of "man" witnessing the waxing and waning of the moon, the return of the grasses in the spring, the bare trees of winter turning to leaf in the spring, the same with the flowers and so much "life" surrounding man. After witnessing each year the rebirth in nature how could man not have felt that this rebirth was what would happen to self.

[Rhizomorph13]

To the OP:

Do you value the day you spend awake?

How is that possible when you know that you are going to go to sleep at the end of the day?

Why bother getting out of bed?

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

My position about an afterlife is the same for the existence of god(s); I do not believe due to lack of evidence.I really don't see this as a difficult concept.

OF COURSE it's possible. It's also possible aliens will land in the car park at the local mall today at 3pm..

No one in recorded history has so far provided any evidence for survival after death.For that reason,I'm not holding my breath for evidence to be forthcoming. I see speculation as fun sometimes,but that does not include arguing with apologists.That's just boring. Most of those here are quite stultifying.

[Justtristo]

E.g. The fact that brain alterations/damage can affect or destroy a person's "essence" such as personality, emotion, and memory.

Evangelical Christian woman I know, who works as a nurse would agree with you.

[Malfader13]

No, atheism has nothing to say about an afterlife, a beforelife or any other form of existence. All atheism states is a lack of belief in a god or gods. True that many atheists also happen to believe that there is no survival of consciousness after the death of the body but this has nothing to do with atheism itself.

It's quite possible to be an atheist and believe in some sort of 'afterlife', the two are not mutually exclusive.

Yes, my mistake. The few atheists I have spoken to did not believe in an afterlife. Though they are not mutually exclusive, it seems to me to be illogical to not believe in one unseen/unexperienced thing {God(s)} and then to believe in another (afterlife).

[theVOID]

It depends how the conclusion that a god does not exist was reached.

If it was arrived at through anything resembling a sound epistemology they won't believe in the afterlife either. If it was a more emotional reason then anything is up for grabs really.

[Malfader13]

It is my understanding that an atheist dose not think there is any kind of afterlife

A little wrong there. Atheists in general do tend to reject any belief regarding an afterlife. However, being an atheist does not require the lacking of belief in spirits, ghosts or any sort of afterlife. An atheist is simply someone who does not believe in a god. Everything else is up for debate. Atheists do tend to reject any supernatural and accept the scientific like evolution.

Yes, my misunderstanding, as noted in a reply to another poster. It is however illogical to believe in one unproven and yet believe in another unproven.

When the body dies it is game over, no consciousness, no sense what so ever that you or anything existed or even doesn't exist true "nothingness".

Mostly true. Though mentally we are gone, physically, we'll exist forever.

Without the mental existence what dose it matter if the physical exists forever or ever did? A tree falls in the forest but no one is there to witness it, dose it make a sound? It doesn't matter if there was a tree.

All of human existence, in fact if astrophysics is correct, the entire universe will cease to exist.

Well I don't know about the entire universe going into non-existence. I reckon all the matter and energy that makes up this big and very dangerous place would always exist.

One theory is the big crunch the other is the big fizzle. Matter crunches, and presumably another big bang and we get to debate this again until we are blue in the face. Or all matter, and energy disperse to the point of inertia. The matter may "exist" but in such a state that it may as well be nothing.

So, all that we humans accomplish will eventually vanish to this "nothingness" even if we happen to exist as a species to witness this ultimate demise.

Well, for the universe to come to it's ultimate end, it will take quite a few BILLION years! Don't know about you, but that seems long enough to me.

Actually this and the next quote from my original are one thought. But as I said that is a very long way off.

Granted that is a very long way off in the future, if a rogue asteroid or deadly virus doesn't wipe us all out tomorrow.

Which is why it's very important to focus on science. The more we know, the more we can do to protect ourselves. Science can help us extend our lifespans to hundreds of years, stop berth defects, eliminate cancer, produce state of the art limbs and organs. It's endless. Science can improve all our lives to a huge extent. Religion likes to hold it back with delusion. I don't think religion is aware that science can give us an extremely long lifespan. We can delay the inevitable.

But, that trillion or five or ten will be up at some point and most likely the human race will be done long long before this. The current estimate is 13 billion years from beginning too now. Human existence in that time compared to a 24hr clock is not even one tick of the second hand. A long time indeed. But none of that time before mattered until consciousness observed it. If we develop the science to defend against every threat imaginable we can't possibly stop the degradation of the entire universe. When consciousness ceases weather we have religious myth or the highest science, all belief/knowledge ceases too. I do prefer a scientific approach, religion for the most part has done much damage.

I hope there is more to this existence than this,

We can create our own purpose. We have that ability. We can be as gods if we want. What I think is holding us back is our immeasurable stupidity, like religion for example. We are holding ourselves back. That's the problem.

I agree, I create my own purpose daily, see the poem "Invictus". However I am afraid I cannot see how we can be as gods. Clinical immortality, control of our environment, populating the edges of the universe, all of these yes. But this too shall pass.

But, no consciousness has come back from the other side to tell me different,

It's because there is no 'other side'. We made that up to feel safe. To feel comfortable in the deluded belief of endless existence.

To me, to say definitively, there is no "other side" is saying we know all things already. There are far to many things we have discovered through science that were thought laughable if not totally insane through the ages to make such a statement. But that is my opinion, your are of course welcome to yours.
I am afraid I still have not received an explanation from science as to why my grandmother was able to clearly describe exact details of a room full of people and events when she was extremely ill saying she saw it all from outside of her body. Evidence of consciousness separate of the body. And I have no reason to think my grandmother would lie.

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To the OP:

Do you value the day you spend awake?

How is that possible when you know that you are going to go to sleep at the end of the day?

Why bother getting out of bed?

Yes. Sleep is nice. I have shit to do.
Whats your point of these questions?

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Sorry have to go to bed, there are others I have replies too and questions for. I will get to them asap. Great discussion so far. Thanks to all for the input.

[Rhizomorph13]

Whats your point of these questions?

Your OP seems to view the belief in no afterlife as negating the value of existing. My point is that if that idea is true then wouldn't knowing that you are going to sleep negate the value of being awake? It isn't exactly the same because we all know we are gong to wake up the next day, but similar in that we begin the day from sleep and end it in sleep, much like we are born from nothing and return to nothing after we die.

[HigherLvlofThinking]

I think nothingness is a good reward. Thats why we should charise the moments we have on earth. Because we will just die and thats it i think!

[Ace Otana]

One theory is the big crunch the other is the big fizzle. Matter crunches, and presumably another big bang and we get to debate this again until we are blue in the face. Or all matter, and energy disperse to the point of inertia. The matter may "exist" but in such a state that it may as well be nothing.

How it works is still very much unknown. We've got a few ideas here and there. It could all come in and set off another big bang or something else. Who knows?

But, that trillion or five or ten will be up at some point and most likely the human race will be done long long before this.

Very true, I agree.

If we develop the science to defend against every threat imaginable we can't possibly stop the degradation of the entire universe.

True. I agree. Though we might as well live it up and exist while we can. Adapt while we can. Focus not at our far off doom but the here and now. That is what matters.

. When consciousness ceases weather we have religious myth or the highest science, all belief/knowledge ceases too.

Pretty much.

However I am afraid I cannot see how we can be as gods. Clinical immortality, control of our environment, populating the edges of the universe, all of these yes. But this too shall pass.

What I meant by us being as gods is that we can easily be seen as a god to people say like those in the stone age. With all the things we are capable of, we can be seen as gods. What if we wean't as far as giant starships? Or being able to Terra form old dead planets to planets loaded with life? What if we could advance so far to the point where death would no longer be a worry and that we could create planets, alter gravity, influence just about everything in our galaxy? To me, that's like being a god. I believe we do have the potential. Just not enough intellect at the moment to pull it off.
Sure it would still all pass, but is that a good reason to not do it? I would love to fly a hang glider for days on end, but I know I can't. Doesn't mean I won't still go ahead with it.

To me, to say definitively, there is no "other side" is saying we know all things already.

I never said definitively. However I am 99.99% sure. It's extremely improbable.

And I have no reason to think my grandmother would lie.

I have no reason to believe it due to lack of evidence and credibility. The brain is actually very active during moments of death. Memory, imagination and senses can go nuts at points of death. We still don't fully understand how the brain works.