‘Nothing short of treasonous’

[Amarok]

Are you serious? I find it hard to believe that you actually think some form of dictatorial state is better than a republic.

Having to make a democratically elected leader go through some hoops to prove he's not insane a crook or a foreign lap dog is hardly dictatorial

[Angrboda]

Now the dick in chief is engaged in a dick waving contest with Iran.  Brilliant.  Negotiate with the country that you can't prevent acquiring nuclear weapons, and antagonize the country that you do have a chance of preventing obtaining nuclear weapons.  There need to be intelligence standards for presidential candidates.  If there had been, then Trump would have never been elected.

Would you rather have terrorism in your country, or a nuclear bomb wafting through the air from another country? And if I'm not mistaken, it was their money to begin with. But I guess you're an advocate of the conservative motto of "Anything I can get away with regardless of whether it's right or not."

[Angrboda]

[Neo-Scholastic]

I'd rather not give any kind of funding to state sponsors of terrorism trying to acquire nukes. It seems right an proper to me to use all means within our disposal to thwart enemies of the USA and its allies.

[Angrboda]

I'd rather not give any kind of funding to state sponsors of terrorism trying to acquire nukes.  It seems right an proper to me to use all means within our disposal to thwart enemies of the USA and  its allies.

Including giving them incentives to restart their nuclear program? That's some policy you've got there, Neo.

[Pat Mustard]

Clarify your post MA. Not sure what you mean by this.

But to me, Afghanistan was wrong in that we could have easily without blowing our budget did what Obama finally did. But even with that we got sucker punched with 9/11 and sorry, you punch me I am coming after you.

Iraq I totally agree, that was a disaster.

But as far as trying equate our spying on even the USSR when it was around, vs their spying on us back then, it still does not change for me, that I do not want to live under tyranny, and the Baltic states that finally broke free when THE USSR a couple have been taken back by Putin, and others are whom are still our allies are very nervous that they are going to get sucked back into the old ways. And Merkel, who lived it doesn't want Putin on his border, and I don't blame her.

I think it is wrong to make global politics always isolationism or always expansion.

I'm sure you meant: Please clarify your post, MA.  

Afghanistan did not attack the USA on 9/11. It was Al Qaeda terrorists. By nationality, the hijackers were mostly Saudis and IIRC, none were Afghanis. Although the Afghani government wasn't inclined to let US forces run around their country to apprehend the orchestrator of the attack (also not an Afghani), a whole-scale invasion was unwarranted, and Osama bin Laden was finally captured with the borders of our 'ally', Pakistan, no invasion necessary. But it was a different administration who managed that.

Our adventures in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya destabilized the region (further) and played a significant role in the formation and equipping of ISIS, which exacerbated the situation in Syria, although that country was headed for trouble anyway.

I'm not talking about routine spying, I'm talking about cyber-espionage and propaganda offensives aimed at influencing the outcome of elections. The Russians shouldn't do it, and neither should we.  IMHO.

I hope that clarifies my position, sorry for not being more clear in the first place.

While the Taliban most definitely didn't want the US army camped on their back lawn, it was most definitely not in their interests to attack the US. Remember just three days prior they had killed the only competent leader of the Northern Alliance, the last major opponents to their rule in Afghanistan, they had also being trying to evict bin Laden for more than three years (he was causing them too much grief, especially with his attacks on US military targets).

After the attack, the Taliban even made a serious offer to the US to capture bin Laden themselves and deliver him to a muslim country with good relations with the US to hand him over to justice. (Incidentally at no stage during the '90s did the Taliban actually show themselves as being unwilling to work with the US. They even tried to set up Shrub Snr with a lucrative oil pipe through Afghanistan)

None of the Taliban actions before, during or after the Sept. 11 attacks were consistent with a grouping either planning or willing to attack the US.

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In other words, put more power in the hands of un-elected bureaucrats because the people cannot be trusted with self-government.

Better them than an unelected traitor.

As a civil servant, I can tell you we at least have to pass a minimum standard of intelligence and show a level of competence and loyalty to our country.

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Would you rather have terrorism in your country, or a nuclear bomb wafting through the air from another country?  And if I'm not mistaken, it was their money to begin with.  But I guess you're an advocate of the conservative motto of "Anything I can get away with regardless of whether it's right or not."

As a christian Wooters love's rich people stealing poor peoples' money.

[Angrboda]

Would you rather have terrorism in your country, or a nuclear bomb wafting through the air from another country?  And if I'm not mistaken, it was their money to begin with.  But I guess you're an advocate of the conservative motto of "Anything I can get away with regardless of whether it's right or not."

As a christian Wooters love's rich people stealing poor peoples' money.

Naw. I prefer the explanation that Wooters doesn't like them because they're brown colored and wear towels on their heads.

[Amarok]

As a christian Wooters love's rich people stealing poor peoples' money.

Naw.  I prefer the explanation that Wooters doesn't like them because they're brown colored and wear towels on their heads.

Why can't it be both?

[Angrboda]

I'd rather not give any kind of funding to state sponsors of terrorism trying to acquire nukes.  It seems right an proper to me to use all means within our disposal to thwart enemies of the USA and  its allies.

Fairness and ethical treatment are the coin which we use to purchase favor in the world at large.* If you're using something else, I suspect it's not ultimately in your or our best interest.

(Well, that and a big, ugly stick.....)