Norway is not a democratic socialist country. Bernie is lying

[KaiBerg02]

So because exploitation exists within capitalistic model you are saying go red and let everybody starve?. Not really seeing how that utopia is gonna look like or how productive its gonna be. How about just call out the corrupt institutions and make other countries productive.

No. I am saying that there are many aspects of reality that are denied by capitalism and also refuting your assertion that it is good for everybody. It inherently is not good for everyone by design. Capitalism cannot function without there being losers who get exploited and discarded.

What I am saying is that due to the challenges the human race now face, it is entirely fucked if it relies on capitalism. We need a collective response to overcome what we are facing, and even then we might very well not manage it.

Add to that increased automation, there is even more need now for the means of production to be taken out of the hands of a few individuals.

Not really seeing how that utopia is gonna look like or how productive its gonna be. How about just call out the corrupt institutions and make other countries productive.

Did you even read what I posted or understand it? Who is talking about a utopia? Who is talking about corruption? Not me.  Stop making a strawman argument.

It is not as simple as saying we can just make other countries more productive. In terms of the long emergency this actually just makes the problem worse.

Society is dependent on finite resources that are fast running out.

By the way, you still haven't provided an example of a socialist country that is not communist.

So what you are suggesting is world wide globalist communsim world wide or am i wrong?. One planet distributing stuff through some form of production.

Yeah i stick with capitalism. If anything crack down on exploitive corporations or people is better than one world order run by elites. If anything helping where they are through donations and support til some stuff that can be used for economic benefits is the only thing i think can work. Or atleast create some alliance in the regions to support the countries by that if they have poverty issues. Just some suggestions but i dont know all about it

If anything communists doesnt create any form of production it just is unrealistic fantasy

[Lucanus]

You have no idea what communism actually is, have you?

You might wanna educate yourself before arguing against strawmen. This is a good resource: https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blo...cialism.md

[Minimalist]

I suspect a Russian troll bot.  Say hi to Uncle Vladdy will you.  You can wait until the WLB stops sucking his cock, if you like.

[Anomalocaris]

No. I am saying that there are many aspects of reality that are denied by capitalism and also refuting your assertion that it is good for everybody. It inherently is not good for everyone by design. Capitalism cannot function without there being losers who get exploited and discarded.

What I am saying is that due to the challenges the human race now face, it is entirely fucked if it relies on capitalism. We need a collective response to overcome what we are facing, and even then we might very well not manage it.

Add to that increased automation, there is even more need now for the means of production to be taken out of the hands of a few individuals.



Did you even read what I posted or understand it? Who is talking about a utopia? Who is talking about corruption? Not me.  Stop making a strawman argument.

It is not as simple as saying we can just make other countries more productive. In terms of the long emergency this actually just makes the problem worse.

Society is dependent on finite resources that are fast running out.

By the way, you still haven't provided an example of a socialist country that is not communist.

So what you are suggesting is world wide globalist communsim world wide or am i wrong?. One planet distributing stuff through some form of production.

Yeah i stick with capitalism. If anything crack down on exploitive corporations or people is better than one world order run by elites. If anything helping where they are through donations and support til some stuff that can be used for economic benefits is the only thing i think can work. Or atleast create some alliance in the regions to support the countries by that if they have poverty issues. Just some suggestions but i dont know all about it

If anything communists doesnt create any form of production it just is unrealistic fantasy

Your certitude, Republican in magnitude, is surpassed only by your confusion and ignorance, again both republican in their magnitudes.

[I_am_not_mafia]

The alternative to capitalism is not communism. Nor are socialism and communism the same thing.

[Anomalocaris]

No. I am saying that there are many aspects of reality that are denied by capitalism and also refuting your assertion that it is good for everybody. It inherently is not good for everyone by design. Capitalism cannot function without there being losers who get exploited and discarded.

What I am saying is that due to the challenges the human race now face, it is entirely fucked if it relies on capitalism. We need a collective response to overcome what we are facing, and even then we might very well not manage it.

Add to that increased automation, there is even more need now for the means of production to be taken out of the hands of a few individuals.



Did you even read what I posted or understand it? Who is talking about a utopia? Who is talking about corruption? Not me.  Stop making a strawman argument.

It is not as simple as saying we can just make other countries more productive. In terms of the long emergency this actually just makes the problem worse.

Society is dependent on finite resources that are fast running out.

By the way, you still haven't provided an example of a socialist country that is not communist.

So what you are suggesting is world wide globalist communsim world wide or am i wrong?. One planet distributing stuff through some form of production.

Yeah i stick with capitalism. If anything crack down on exploitive corporations or people is better than one world order run by elites. If anything helping where they are through donations and support til some stuff that can be used for economic benefits is the only thing i think can work. Or atleast create some alliance in the regions to support the countries by that if they have poverty issues. Just some suggestions but i dont know all about it

If anything communists doesnt create any form of production it just is unrealistic fantasy

The singular achievement of the Republican Party in the last 40 years has been to manufacture a system of “alternative facts” and definition through which it would seem possible to argue that the greatest Good for all  Comes through giving the few untrammeled right to screw the many by taking more of a smaller pie, and deflect any sense of injustice and unfairness resulting from gradual enmiseration and impoverishment of the majority by liberal use of high decibel, but baseless, screams of “communism”, “ socialism” and laughable assertion of “the pie would be much smaller otherwise”.

[The Industrial Atheist]

You haven't triggered me, but did you know our latest increase in defense spending, not the whole budget, just the increase, would pay for free college.

That's a fair argument. I can agree that our defense spending is quite large and in fact unnecessary. Seems that could like you said pay for some of these things. The money is obviously there, it just seems to be wasted and misused. Growing up, my folks taught me how to keep a budget and stick to one. Amazes me how the U.S. government has yet to figure this out. I understand there's a lot of moving parts, but still. BUDGET. PROPERLY.

Yeah definitely. I would say less business subsidies too. Probably eliminate most, if not all, help for big businesses. If they can't compete with the resources they have, then they just can't make it. I'm for helping smaller businesses that have legit reasons to need help. Much of the money goes to the most gigantic companies like Nike and Boeing. It's no coincidence that they make the most political donations.

---

So because exploitation exists within capitalistic model you are saying go red and let everybody starve?. Not really seeing how that utopia is gonna look like or how productive its gonna be. How about just call out the corrupt institutions and make other countries productive.

LOL

Basically I would want my country to be maybe slightly to the right of your country, instead of being by far the most right wing in the first world.

[Aegon]

Bernie is a good person overall and is sincere. But his policies aren't set in reality. Nor is that chick from New York. (Yes, I know I just triggered 90% of the users here just by saying that) but the nations that use what he is proposing usually aren't saddled with the same issues we have in the U.S.

I.e. large population, abuse of our social programs and so on. Also, lets not forget these nordic countries don't have to worry about paying for their own defense. It's usually footed by NATO and the United States.

You're right. The US population dwarfs Norway's (325 million vs 5 million) Guess what? So does the GDP (18 trillion vs 370 billion). We have a very large population, but also immense wealth. We increased the military budget by $61 BILLION this year. That increase alone eclipses Russia's entire military budget. That's obscene. We have the money to start and/or improve upon social programs. We just choose to use it on other things. 

Also, "that chick from New York" holds a degree in economics and, as far as I'm aware, most congressmen have never been formally educated in the area, including those sitting on budget committees.

[The Industrial Atheist]

You haven't triggered me, but did you know our latest increase in defense spending, not the whole budget, just the increase, would pay for free college.

That's a fair argument. I can agree that our defense spending is quite large and in fact unnecessary. Seems that could like you said pay for some of these things. The money is obviously there, it just seems to be wasted and misused. Growing up, my folks taught me how to keep a budget and stick to one. Amazes me how the U.S. government has yet to figure this out. I understand there's a lot of moving parts, but still. BUDGET. PROPERLY.

But I would also point out that studies conclude that a single payer healthcare system would actually be a few trillion dollars cheaper than what we have over 10 years.

[Cyberman]

So what you are suggesting is world wide globalist communsim world wide or am i wrong?. One planet distributing stuff through some form of production.

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