Tipping in the service industry

[Joods]

I know... I just get so frustrated when I see people complain that they can't pay their bills, but they are always the ones with the latest electronics or always going out to eat or whatever, yet they can't tip a decent tip? Ugh. Or... here's a good one... they expect me to give them free or drastically reduced costs to do their hair. Nope. Sorry. I charge what I'm worth. The only people who get free services from me are my other half and my kids. I didn't get in this business to give everyone I know a discount.

---

I agree about service - if a tip is expected, you should tip based on how well the service was performed.
Where I disagree though is with the fact that if someone can afford to go out to eat, they should still tip something. Too many times I see friends sit there and bitch because they are behind in their utility bills, but we're sitting there eating at a restaurant? How is that prioritizing your money? If you can't pay your light bill then you probably shouldn't be eating out anyway.

I totally agree, and I don’t spend my cash unwisely for the most part (I hope lol) but again, people do what they do.

Edit: by the way, in my initial post any “you” was in general and not directed at anyone in particular. So I hope you didn’t take it that way.

I didn't take it that way at all

I know "you" was meant in the general sense.

[Angrboda]

Ultimately the question comes down to supply and demand. There are several instances of supply and demand here. The two most important being the supply of the service and the demand for it, and the supply of workers being willing to supply the service. Depending upon the demand for the service, a certain rate of compensation will be established between asking for too much compensation and asking too little. So the total amount of compensation is set by the market, regardless of whether that comes in the form of payment in toto, or payment plus a customary gratuity. Likewise, the supply of workers who supply the service is dependent upon the compensation provided to them. Provide less compensation to the worker and fewer will engage in that practice, causing a scarcity of supply which will lead the market to compensate by increasing the price of the service overall, thus increasing the compensation to the worker. Whether the compensation is provided in terms of one lump sum or distributed in terms of a lump sum plus customary tips, the levels of compensation are ultimately set by market forces independent of whether the compensation provided for the service is paid as one complete sum or as a combination of tips and a payment. If you eliminate the tips, then the level of compensation being provided to the individual worker will have to rise in order for them to meet the need for workers to provide the service. So the question of tips or no tips is really just a question of how the compensation from the seller is provided to the worker, it doesn't determine the actual amount of that total compensation. The market forces do that. So preferring one solution, lump total sum over lump sum plus tips, is simply preferring one arbitrary means of distributing the same monies over another. There is no fundamental reason to prefer one to the other, though there may be systematic reasons, such as workers being short changed on total compensation because of the way compensation is counted. So ultimately preferring one customary practice to the other makes no sense. It's simply a custom. If the custom were to change, other things would not remain static, the market would change the level of compensation provided by other means than tips to compensate. So your friend is simply arguing an arbitrary preference for the customs of her practice.

[brewer]

Thinking about bad leper jokes. I can only hear the word "tip" so many times.

[Joods]

Ultimately the question comes down to supply and demand.  There are several instances of supply and demand here.  The two most important being the supply of the service and the demand for it, and the supply of workers being willing to supply the service.  Depending upon the demand for the service, a certain rate of compensation will be established between asking for too much compensation and asking too little.  So the total amount of compensation is set by the market, regardless of whether that comes in the form of payment in toto, or payment plus a customary gratuity.  Likewise, the supply of workers who supply the service is dependent upon the compensation provided to them.  Provide less compensation to the worker and fewer will engage in that practice, causing a scarcity of supply which will lead the market to compensate by increasing the price of the service overall, thus increasing the compensation to the worker.  Whether the compensation is provided in terms of one lump sum or distributed in terms of  a lump sum plus customary tips, the levels of compensation are ultimately set by market forces independent of whether the compensation provided for the service is paid as one complete sum or as a combination of tips and a payment.  If you eliminate the tips, then the level of compensation being provided to the individual worker will have to rise in order for them to meet the need for workers to provide the service.  So the question of tips or no tips is really just a question of how the compensation from the seller is provided to the worker, it doesn't determine the actual amount of that total compensation.  The market forces do that.  So preferring one solution, lump total sum over lump sum plus tips, is simply preferring one arbitrary means of distributing the same monies over another.  There is no fundamental reason to prefer one to the other, though there may be systematic reasons, such as workers being short changed on total compensation because of the way compensation is counted.  So ultimately preferring one customary practice to the other makes no sense.  It's simply a custom.  If the custom were to change, other things would not remain static, the market would change the level of compensation provided by other means than tips to compensate.  So your friend is simply arguing an arbitrary preference for the customs of her practice.

Tipping becomes more than just a custom when the federal minimum wage laws dictate that food service workers are allowed to earn a minimum wage of $2.35 an hour and employers aren't willing to shell out the extremely ridiculous federal wage that everyone else makes of $7.25 an hour. 

Until the laws are changed here regarding how servers are paid and the amount they should receive, then I'm afraid workers will always have to rely heavily on their tips. Also what many people don't realize is that when the tip is added on the credit card, employers are required to take deductions out of those tips, vs paying tips in cash and letting the server claim the standard 10% of their tips on their tax returns. Tips via credit card hurts the employees even more because of this.

[Aroura]

Hey Joods, quick question. Friend of mine over here recently got a pedicure, and the lady cut her foot quite badly with the blade she was using to scrape off dead skin. She's limping around today, but didn't need stitches or anything. They still charged her fully for the service. Is that normal? Should she do anything?

Side note, I admire people who do these jobs. No way I'm scraping dead skin off some strangers foot. Urg.

Feet are gross. While I'm trained to do mani's and pedi's, I won't. I hate feet. Especially other people's feet. 

I'm assuming blood surfaced. The service should have stopped immediately and she should not have paid for it. She could file a complaint against the salon and the worker but I don't know if there's a licensing bureau where you are. Definitely something worth looking into, I think. If you have details from your friend as to how they proceeded to handle the cut, it might be wise to write those details down as a major infraction might have occurred. 

If she's still limping about, she should get to a doctor to have the cut properly cleaned and looked at.

Yeah, she said it bleed quite a lot for a few minutes before slowing down enough for them to bandage it there and send her on her way.
I was absolutely shocked when she told me they still charged her (without even a discount!).  I don't think she means to sue or anything, but I doubt she'll return there for business.  
Thank you for the advice!  I'll pass it on.

[Joods]

I am curious to know if they followed proper procedure for the clean up. We are actually tested here, in PA, as part of requirements for licensing, on the 8 step blood spill procedure and the Universal Precautions. We must have certain items in a clearly marked bio-hazard blood spill kit. One kit per each chair and one kit per each section of the salon.

I'm actually terrified for your friend. I really hope she reports the salon as my fear is that they didn't follow proper procedure at all.

[Angrboda]

Ultimately the question comes down to supply and demand.  There are several instances of supply and demand here.  The two most important being the supply of the service and the demand for it, and the supply of workers being willing to supply the service.  Depending upon the demand for the service, a certain rate of compensation will be established between asking for too much compensation and asking too little.  So the total amount of compensation is set by the market, regardless of whether that comes in the form of payment in toto, or payment plus a customary gratuity.  Likewise, the supply of workers who supply the service is dependent upon the compensation provided to them.  Provide less compensation to the worker and fewer will engage in that practice, causing a scarcity of supply which will lead the market to compensate by increasing the price of the service overall, thus increasing the compensation to the worker.  Whether the compensation is provided in terms of one lump sum or distributed in terms of  a lump sum plus customary tips, the levels of compensation are ultimately set by market forces independent of whether the compensation provided for the service is paid as one complete sum or as a combination of tips and a payment.  If you eliminate the tips, then the level of compensation being provided to the individual worker will have to rise in order for them to meet the need for workers to provide the service.  So the question of tips or no tips is really just a question of how the compensation from the seller is provided to the worker, it doesn't determine the actual amount of that total compensation.  The market forces do that.  So preferring one solution, lump total sum over lump sum plus tips, is simply preferring one arbitrary means of distributing the same monies over another.  There is no fundamental reason to prefer one to the other, though there may be systematic reasons, such as workers being short changed on total compensation because of the way compensation is counted.  So ultimately preferring one customary practice to the other makes no sense.  It's simply a custom.  If the custom were to change, other things would not remain static, the market would change the level of compensation provided by other means than tips to compensate.  So your friend is simply arguing an arbitrary preference for the customs of her practice.

Tipping becomes more than just a custom when the federal minimum wage laws dictate that food service workers are allowed to earn a minimum wage of $2.35 an hour and employers aren't willing to shell out the extremely ridiculous federal wage that everyone else makes of $7.25 an hour. 

Until the laws are changed here regarding how servers are paid and the amount they should receive, then I'm afraid workers will always have to rely heavily on their tips. Also what many people don't realize is that when the tip is added on the credit card, employers are required to take deductions out of those tips, vs paying tips in cash and letting the server claim the standard 10% of their tips on their tax returns. Tips via credit card hurts the employees even more because of this.

Regardless, my point is that preferring one practice to the other, whether supported by law or whatever, is simply arbitrary. If you remove the support for a practice involving tips, other practices will change to compensate because of market forces. So the argument as to which is preferable is simply a non-starter. Neither is preferable to the other, they are both simply arbitrary mechanisms for achieving the same result.

[Aoi Magi]

Feet are gross. While I'm trained to do mani's and pedi's, I won't. I hate feet. Especially other people's feet. 

I'm assuming blood surfaced. The service should have stopped immediately and she should not have paid for it. She could file a complaint against the salon and the worker but I don't know if there's a licensing bureau where you are. Definitely something worth looking into, I think. If you have details from your friend as to how they proceeded to handle the cut, it might be wise to write those details down as a major infraction might have occurred. 

If she's still limping about, she should get to a doctor to have the cut properly cleaned and looked at.

Yeah, she said it bleed quite a lot for a few minutes before slowing down enough for them to bandage it there and send her on her way.
I was absolutely shocked when she told me they still charged her (without even a discount!).  I don't think she means to sue or anything, but I doubt she'll return there for business.  
Thank you for the advice!  I'll pass it on.

Your friend is too much a softy! Just the injury I can understand, but if they are charging on top of it, it clearly shows that they don't feel the least bit sorry and in such cases I'd also not hold back!

[outtathereligioncloset]

My mother was ADAMANTLY against tipping waitresses. I was unaware of this until after she died and my father told me the many times and clever ways he managed to tip behind her back. She firmly believed that the restaurant should pay the staff like anywhere else and not tipping was her way of protesting the system, I guess.

I guess partly because of that, I grew up entirely unaware of whole categories that I should have been tipping. I was well into my thirties before I realized I needed to tip my hair stylist.

I am a good tipper since realizing. I never reduce a tip at a restaurant based on anything that's remotely beyond the control of the waitress. I tip in tip jars at the counter. I leave cash rather than credit cards because I know some places can be bad about not getting credit card tips to the waitresses. I even tip at the take out pizza and Chinese food counters, though not as much as if I'd sat there and been waited on.

I've never tipped my mailman anything but a plate of cookies and I've never tipped the people who pick up my garbage. The garbage pickup staff is surly and sloppy and tend to block my driveway in such a way that I have to stop and put the emptied can back in place before I can drive into the driveway.

To anyone thinking I might get better service from them if I did tip---they've been this way since day one. And I happen to know they are paid well. They especially irritate me by the fact that we are among the few who actually take our rolling can (which, yes, does belong to them) to the car wash in the stinky summer and hose out all the ants and stench and put it back in place. I keep a small band of yellow painter's tape around it to show it's "our" can. But despite that, and polite requests to please give us back the same can after emptying, they consistently shuffle it around with one or the other of the half dozen or so at my corner and I wind up with somebody else's nasty can while they get my nice clean one. We just LOVE getting the one with litter box crumbs on the bottom.

[Joods]

I don't tip my mail lady because after living here for three years and having a paper on the inside door of our mailbox with the names of the people living here, she still can't get our mail to our box. She even had the audacity to holler at my other half when I left her a note stating that a Chas. RXXXX hasn't lived at this residence for 3 years and I would appreciate it if she'd stop delivering his mail here. She banged on our door at 8am to yell at us. I reported her to her boss at the local post office.

I also don't tip the garbage men. They leave trash lying in the middle of the road. Rather than picking it up, they drive over it. I've called the trash company on more than one occasion with a complaint about that.