Atheism is unstoppable.

[purplepurpose]

Pastafarianism will outgrow everyone else. I hope and pray, Ramen.

[EgoDeath]

Yea, I think we need to be careful with statistics. So I understand the proclivity of Christians to quote certain figures and use that in their arguments but it seems like you guys aren't even reading the very study you cited.

I read the study I cited. It projected that nonbelievers will be a smaller percentage of the world population in 2050 then they are now.

Nonbelief is becoming more and more acceptable everywhere as time goes on. I'm not saying we'll see a world without religion in 100 years, or even 500... but I am sure it is going away, even if the process is painstakingly slow.

Soon enough, religion will simply be a nonissue. It won't be something people even consider as a feasible way to look at the world. Christianity, Islam, so on and so forth... will all be lumped in with the Greek gods and the mythological stories that accompany them. And that's okay. In fact, I look forward it, if I do ever get to see it.

You can believe whatever you want, but people who actually study this stuff for a living have come to a different conclusion.

Yes and they've concluded the number will still be rising... atheists and "unaffiliated" will be a smaller percentage because of the growth of other religions not because there will be less atheists than before. Islam will see the most growth and that is no surprise since it is the fastest growing religion right now. The problem seems to be with how you're interpreting the information. As we've seen in other studies, atheism is on the rise in a big way in many places. 

We have to consider how much these religions will be "growing" simply because of a rise in population of those respective countries. We also have to consider what they mean by "Muslims" or "Christians." Does that include people who simply self-identify as Muslims or Christians? Certainly there are plenty of people who call themselves Christians due to peer pressure and a bunch of other factors who are truly nothing of the sort. I would argue that Christians of the 1800s would look at today's Christians as devil-worshippers and heretics. So what is a Christian anymore? Arguably, the word has lost it's definition.

[SteveII]

I read the study I cited. It projected that nonbelievers will be a smaller percentage of the world population in 2050 then they are now.


You can believe whatever you want, but people who actually study this stuff for a living have come to a different conclusion.

Yes and they've concluded the number will still be rising... atheists and "unaffiliated" will be a smaller percentage because of the growth of other religions not because there will be less atheists than before. Islam will see the most growth and that is no surprise since it is the fastest growing religion right now. The problem seems to be with how you're interpreting the information. As we've seen in other studies, atheism is on the rise in a big way in many places. 

We have to consider how much these religions will be "growing" simply because of a rise in population of those respective countries. We also have to consider what they mean by "Muslims" or "Christians." Does that include people who simply self-identify as Muslims or Christians? Certainly there are plenty of people who call themselves Christians due to peer pressure and a bunch of other factors who are truly nothing of the sort. I would argue that Christians of the 1800s would look at today's Christians as devil-worshippers and heretics. So what is a Christian anymore? Arguably, the word has lost it's definition.

The fact that you are arguing about why atheism isn't catching on and the quality of self-identified Christians shows that your entire OP and this whole thread is just wishful nonsense.

[Dr H]

Not all are fading, though. Whilst traditional Christian churches have shown massive declines in the 20th century, Islam shows a lot of growth in the last 20 years, which is a cause for concern.

Why do you think that is? I feel that Islam is less flexible that Christianity, so is resistant to dilution and probably retains better. But is the growth due to immigration? I find it hard to believe it is actually drawing a significant number of people in from the outside.

It's because the developed "west", led by the US and the UK, have been fucking with the Middle East and other third world areas for decades, for their own gain, and to the general detriment of the ME and other less developed nations.  People eventually get tired of being pushed around and having their resources raped by foreign nations.  Social organization is essential for taking control of one's society, and religions provide one means -- and a very effective means -- for social organization.  

One of the big reasons the Soviet Union suppressed religion for so many years was NOT -- contrary to what some theists claim -- because they were zealots for atheism.  It was because they saw religion as a possible focal point for resistance to the political status quo.  And rightly so.

Religion is a social and political force; we need to understand that to deal with it effectively.

[Angrboda]

A world in which a majority of people become non-doctrinaire but practicing Buddhists would be quite nice. But that's about as likely as a majority becoming Western-style atheists.

I believe that place is called Myanmar.

---

Never underestimate the power of stupidity.

[Crossless2.0]

A world in which a majority of people become non-doctrinaire but practicing Buddhists would be quite nice. But that's about as likely as a majority becoming Western-style atheists.

I believe that place is called Myanmar.

---

Never underestimate the power of stupidity.

Touché

[Angrboda]

People are not getting the memo:

If current trends continue, by 2050 …

• Atheists, agnostics and other people who do not affiliate with any religion – though increasing in countries such as the United States and France – will make up a declining share of the world’s total population. http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/relig...2010-2050/

Just out of curiosity, Steve, do you see the rest of the world becoming more like the U.S. over time, less like the U.S. over time, or remaining about the same as they are now?

[Mister Agenda]

You can believe whatever you want, but people who actually study this stuff for a living have come to a different conclusion.

Correct, but based solely on religious trends. We don't know how to factor in things like the modernization of Africa or the impact of climate change or new technology, the predictions just assume that religious belief will hold steady and increase as fast as their population does, but religion isn't an inheritable genetic trait, there's no guarantee the next generation of Africans will be as religious as the last one. America was highly religious, and the decline has been relatively sudden and only obvious in retrospect. For instance, the Millenials are the first generation to become less religious as they grow older, that's a reversal of a long-standing trend. And that won't necessarily be true of the next generation after it. Our powers of prediction aren't up to it.

I don't believe religion is ever going away, but the next 40 years are probably going to surprise us in many ways, underestimating the increase of atheism may be one of them. Or not. There's certainly no basis for faithful adherence to either view. Certainly the absolute number of religious people in the world is going to continue to increase faster than the absolute number of atheists in the short run.

[Nay_Sayer]

Yes and they've concluded the number will still be rising... atheists and "unaffiliated" will be a smaller percentage because of the growth of other religions not because there will be less atheists than before. Islam will see the most growth and that is no surprise since it is the fastest growing religion right now. The problem seems to be with how you're interpreting the information. As we've seen in other studies, atheism is on the rise in a big way in many places. 

We have to consider how much these religions will be "growing" simply because of a rise in population of those respective countries. We also have to consider what they mean by "Muslims" or "Christians." Does that include people who simply self-identify as Muslims or Christians? Certainly there are plenty of people who call themselves Christians due to peer pressure and a bunch of other factors who are truly nothing of the sort. I would argue that Christians of the 1800s would look at today's Christians as devil-worshippers and heretics. So what is a Christian anymore? Arguably, the word has lost it's definition.

The fact that you are arguing about why atheism isn't catching on and the quality of self-identified Christians shows that your entire OP and this whole thread is just wishful nonsense.

The fact that you are arguing about why christianity isn't catching on and the quality of self-identified Pastafarians shows that your entire thought process is flawed and this whole thread is just awesome.

[Fireball]

Why do you think that is? I feel that Islam is less flexible that Christianity, so is resistant to dilution and probably retains better. But is the growth due to immigration? I find it hard to believe it is actually drawing a significant number of people in from the outside.

It's because the developed "west", led by the US and the UK, have been fucking with the Middle East and other third world areas for decades, for their own gain, and to the general detriment of the ME and other less developed nations.  People eventually get tired of being pushed around and having their resources raped by foreign nations.  Social organization is essential for taking control of one's society, and religions provide one means -- and a very effective means -- for social organization.  

One of the big reasons the Soviet Union suppressed religion for so many years was NOT -- contrary to what some theists claim -- because they were zealots for atheism.  It was because they saw religion as a possible focal point for resistance to the political status quo.  And rightly so.

Religion is a social and political force; we need to understand that to deal with it effectively.

Indeed. The west should have kept their dicks out of the ME after WW1. I think that the geopolitical landscape would be quite different if they hadn't been fucked over so badly. Our want for "light sweet crude" has been vastly to their detriment.