Does Quran prove God?

[robvalue]

Why would I? He would just not be seeing me properly. You can’t see me properly either, so you say, and that doesn’t matter, does it?

Am I a figment of his mind, or do I have independent existence? I guess that’s the fundamental question. Of course, asserting the former is hugely unsupportable.

You are created through his vision of you in truth, and without that vision you would be in chaotic state with no concrete exact value.  Morality and value and love and it's language, would all not make sense without his vision.

---

See the details in that thread I linked to you earlier.

That is just a rather strange assertion, quoted as fact. It’s not supported by any evidence. To provide evidence, we need some sort of falsifiable hypothesis.

These things might not make sense to you without going through this process, but that’s not required.

[robvalue]

In the other thread you say we can’t subjectively value ourselves unless we believe in objective value. I value myself and everything in my life on a subjective basis, but I don’t believe in objective value.

It seems value is used to meant to mean "worth", in some regard. You’re saying I have a specific amount of worth. This doesn’t make sense to me, without it being a worth to [something]. I could be worth nothing to anyone, yet I could still live. And I don’t see what relevance it is how much god values us, or if he’s not present to value us.

If we have an inherent value (which I don’t think makes sense), then we have it, regardless of whether some master decoder is around to find out what it is. You claim I have it through evidence, and if that’s so, then that’s as far as it goes. No other contingency required. If it’s not clear whether I have it or not, then clearly I can exist without it, potentially.

[Mystic]

In the other thread you say we can’t subjectively value ourselves unless we believe in objective value. I value myself and everything in my life on a subjective basis, but I don’t believe in objective value.

It seems value is meant to mean "worth", in some regard. You’re saying I have a specific amount of worth. This doesn’t make sense to me, without it being a worth to [something]. I could be worth nothing to anyone, yet I could still live. And I don’t see what relevance it is how much god values us, or if he’s not present to value us.

If we have an inherent value (which I don’t think makes sense), then we have it, regardless of whether some master decoder is around to find out what it is. You claim I have it through evidence, and if that’s so, then that’s as far as it goes. No other contingency required. If it’s not clear whether I have it or not, then clearly I can exist without it, potentially.

I argued with a person there at lengths regarding this. If the disputed premise is objective/value worth, then I am ok with that.  So the premise disputed is no longer need of absolute perception to give objective worth or value, but the premise is we have exact value/worth/measurement.

The thread I think we discussed it at lengths there and there is no need to repeat everything here. 

I believe I've supported the case we have objective value through out the years.

Subjective value is impossible without belief in objective value,  whether you admit it to yourself or not, is different matter.

And belief in objective value doesn't prove objective value exists, but I've shown enough through out the years, that no human doesn't believe in objective worth/value.

But let's not jump over the place, if you still don't see why we need perception with exact/objective value to us, then that still needs to be discussed.

[robvalue]

I don’t believe in it, I just said so. It makes no sense to me. Unless you wish to just tell me what I believe, then you’re mistaken.

[Mystic]

I don’t believe in it, I just said so. It makes no sense to me. Unless you wish to just tell me what I believe, then you’re mistaken.

You can say it all you want love that seeks to recognize value as is, is part of you. So again, I am 100% sure you believe in objective worth and value, whether you are aware of it or not, is a different matter.

[FatAndFaithless]

Mystic the manic mind reader  

[Astreja]

{snip a bunch of unsupported assertions about MK's favourite holy book}

Does the Quran prove god?

No.  Absolutely not.  It's a claim that is completely unsupported by external evidence -- in other words, mere fiction.

[Mystic]

{snip a bunch of unsupported assertions about MK's favourite holy book}

Does the Quran prove god?

No.  Absolutely not.  It's a claim that is completely unsupported by external evidence -- in other words, mere fiction.

God has brought a proof to humanity, so whoever holds on to God, will be guided to his path.

[robvalue]

I don’t believe in it, I just said so. It makes no sense to me. Unless you wish to just tell me what I believe, then you’re mistaken.

You can say it all you want love that seeks to recognize value as is, is part of you. So again, I am 100% sure you believe in objective worth and value, whether you are aware of it or not, is a different matter.

We were having a fairly civilised debate up to this point. Now we're back to this nonsense again. You overestimate your abilities, young padawan.

[Mystic]

You can say it all you want love that seeks to recognize value as is, is part of you. So again, I am 100% sure you believe in objective worth and value, whether you are aware of it or not, is a different matter.

We were having a fairly civilised debate up to this point. Now we're back to this nonsense again. You overestimate your abilities, young padawan.

Love recognizes value, it doesn't create it. If it creates is by whims, it's chaotic evil because it doesn't seek to know a person/being but just creates the value with no proof.

If there is proof, it's recognition.

And you love your parents and wife based on proof and you recognize actions they've done, and so your subjective love is based on belief that they have objective value and worth, and also through honoring true states they were in with regards to you.