Purpose? No idea what it is.

[LadyForCamus]

I hear theists saying that without God life has no purpose. The only part of this statement I disagree with is the without God part.
As far as I can see there is no purpose at all to our lives. I've heard atheists arguing with theists about the question of purpose saying things like "We make our own purpose" and "We don't need God for purpose".

I'm interested in what both atheists and theists think purpose is. Ultimately whatever you are doing, have done or are going to do is one big waste of time. I'm thinking about past generations in my family, I have no idea about who those people were, what they did, I know nothing.

I understand purpose as working toward something, so I could say my purpose is to go through life without hurting anyone or that my purpose is to have children and bring them up well and hopefully leave the world in better shape than I found it... But so what? Ultimately so what?

Even if by some ridiculous miracle God does exist and has a purpose in mind for us, what the hell can you possibly work toward for in eternity? Nothing, nothing at all.

I'm not depressed by the fact that I am pointless. I'm just thinking out loud.

I don’t get the whole, ‘subjective meaning as a motivator’ thing either, sadly. It’s not that I desire to stop living; it’s just hard to live with the utter pointlessness of life sometimes.  Should I kill myself, or have a cup of coffee? 😏

[The Valkyrie]

I hear theists saying that without God life has no purpose. The only part of this statement I disagree with is the without God part.
As far as I can see there is no purpose at all to our lives. I've heard atheists arguing with theists about the question of purpose saying things like "We make our own purpose" and "We don't need God for purpose".

I'm interested in what both atheists and theists think purpose is. Ultimately whatever you are doing, have done or are going to do is one big waste of time. I'm thinking about past generations in my family, I have no idea about who those people were, what they did, I know nothing.

I understand purpose as working toward something, so I could say my purpose is to go through life without hurting anyone or that my purpose is to have children and bring them up well and hopefully leave the world in better shape than I found it... But so what? Ultimately so what?

Even if by some ridiculous miracle God does exist and has a purpose in mind for us, what the hell can you possibly work toward for in eternity? Nothing, nothing at all.

I'm not depressed by the fact that I am pointless. I'm just thinking out loud.

I don’t get the whole, ‘subjective meaning as a motivator’ thing either, sadly. It’s not that I desire to stop living; it’s just hard to live with the utter pointlessness of life sometimes.  Should I kill myself, or have a cup of coffee? 😏

Tea.

[Rahn127]

I don’t get the whole, ‘subjective meaning as a motivator’ thing either, sadly. It’s not that I desire to stop living; it’s just hard to live with the utter pointlessness of life sometimes.  Should I kill myself, or have a cup of coffee? 😏

Tea.

Guinness
Anything else is just flavored water.

[The Valkyrie]

Tea.

Guinness
Anything else is just flavored water.

Guinness is just liquidised marmite.

I'll take real beer.

[Ravenshire]

Eternity with 72 virgins. If that doesn't count as purpose I don't know what will.

Meh. 72 virgins would suck. Eternity spent with shy gropes and tentative touching? No thanks. Give me 72 women who can fuck me sideways!

[GrandizerII]

It really depends on how purpose is being defined.

I would define purpose as a reason to exist or working toward some sort of goal IDK? How would you define it?

Similar to yours.

If defined as "working toward some sort of goal", then we can have purpose without God.

And human societies and persons can dictate/determine our reason(s) for existence. Nothing about either definition you provided necessitates that a God has to exist for purpose to be a thing.

[Cod]

I would define purpose as a reason to exist or working toward some sort of goal IDK? How would you define it?

Similar to yours.

If defined as "working toward some sort of goal", then we can have purpose without God.

And human societies and persons can dictate/determine our reason(s) for existence. Nothing about either definition you provided necessitates that a God has to exist for purpose to be a thing.

I agree with what you are saying, but would add that life is purposeless with or without a God. As you have stated persons can determine their own reasons for existence, someone might say "My purpose is to live a long and happy life" but that doesn't mean that they have a purpose, that is just their own idea of a purpose.

I think most people realise that in the big picture our lives are insignificant and pretty pointless, that's why theists claim that this is just a dress rehearsal and a real purposeful life is waiting. I've heard this claim many times.. "God has a purpose for us" but never an explanation of what that might be.

I'm probably not explaining my thoughts very well here and I'm pretty sick of typing the word purpose.

[Belacqua]

someone might say "My purpose is to live a long and happy life" but that doesn't mean that they have a purpose, that is just their own idea of a purpose.

I guess that just seems strange to me. 

I mean, if I say I have a headache, or a cheeseburger, or a desire to buy that nice piece of Edo period porcelain that's up on the auction site right now, all those things are temporal. But they are still real. I have them. 

It occurs to me that I've never heard a Japanese person say that a purpose must be eternal and universal to be real. One of the constant tropes in literature here is the passing nature of things, and of course there's very little influence from monotheism. So it may be a cultural difference.

---

Simone Weil says an interesting thing about purpose in her book Gravity and Grace.

She says that real purpose comes when we do what comes unchosen. She gives the example of a soldier who is praised for an act of bravery. The soldier replies, "that was the only thing to do at the time." To him it didn't seem brave, or even something he chose to do; it just seemed inevitable.

Weil takes this to be the ideal in moral situations. If someone is suffering in front of you, you don't help that person because you desire some reward. You do it because it seems like the thing that must be done.

Weil, being a Christian mystic, uses language that people here won't like. She calls this state of inevitability obedience to the Good, or even slavery to God. But it may be that this is what people feel is lacking when they say that a chosen, contingent, or temporal purpose isn't a real purpose. A real purpose will present itself unchosen and unavoidable.

[Cod]

someone might say "My purpose is to live a long and happy life" but that doesn't mean that they have a purpose, that is just their own idea of a purpose.

I guess that just seems strange to me. 

I mean, if I say I have a headache, or a cheeseburger, or a desire to buy that nice piece of Edo period porcelain that's up on the auction site right now, all those things are temporal. But they are still real. I have them. 

It occurs to me that I've never heard a Japanese person say that a purpose must be eternal and universal to be real. One of the constant tropes in literature here is the passing nature of things, and of course there's very little influence from monotheism. So it may be a cultural difference.

---

Simone Weil says an interesting thing about purpose in her book Gravity and Grace.

She says that real purpose comes when we do what comes unchosen. She gives the example of a soldier who is praised for an act of bravery. The soldier replies, "that was the only thing to do at the time." To him it didn't seem brave, or even something he chose to do; it just seemed inevitable.

Weil takes this to be the ideal in moral situations. If someone is suffering in front of you, you don't help that person because you desire some reward. You do it because it seems like the thing that must be done.

Weil, being a Christian mystic, uses language that people here won't like. She calls this state of inevitability obedience to the Good, or even slavery to God. But it may be that this is what people feel is lacking when they say that a chosen, contingent, or temporal purpose isn't a real purpose. A real purpose will present itself unchosen and unavoidable.

Funny how you have to die before you truly 'know' anything.

[The Valkyrie]

I thought the purpose was purple?