Animal rights, veganism and PETA

[theVOID]

In defense of 4: If the mean of x=3 and I introduce another x with the value of 4 then the mean of x increases.

As for 5 and 6... What's the problem?

Can you name a situation where the antithesis of 5 is true? Is it ever ethical to decrease the quality of life of one being even if it is of no increase to the quality of life of other beings?

Change 6 to "Farming animals is ethical as it tends to increase the mean quality of life for humans and animals". Farming animals makes a small minority sad, so what? It increases the quality of life for the majority of people. Also, if you accept premise 1 how can you reject 6 unless you want to maintain that the quality of life has no ethical value?

[Skipper]

Like I give a shit anyway, but I think I have a pretty good argument for eating meat that trumps all the vegan pussies.

I think the best argument that trumps vegan pussies is every single one I have ever known constantly looks ill as fuck and are boring, lacking energy and are generally twats.

MEAT! MEAT! MEAT!

[Edwardo Piet]

The argument I have is: We can only be vegan if we can be demotivated from eating non-vegan foods (meat and other shit vegans can't eat). If we can't do that then it's wrong to say we shouldn't eat non-vegan foods. "Ought" implies "can" so if we can't don't tell us we shouldn't. You don't know if we can, so give us the benefit of the doubt.

Also, with at least some people, vegan diets whilst being good for animals can be bad for ourselves. So it can sometimes be a matter of health and not just abstaining from pleasurable foods.

[Skipper]

The argument I have is: We can only be vegan if we can be demotivated from eating non-vegan foods (meat and other shit vegans can't eat). If we can't do that then it's wrong to say we shouldn't eat me. "ought" implies "can" so if we can't don't tell us we shouldn't.

You related to The Riddler by any chance? I have to re read every one of your posts a few times to extract a meaning that I eventually see....might just be me though

[Edwardo Piet]

I'm more of a "puzzler" really. No, scratch that and make it: "Puzzled".

[Meatball]

I have a hard time believing that a factory-farmed chicken leads a better life than a wild turkey or grouse or whatever. Living in a cage with just enough room to open it's wings and turn around is not a good life. Just because it is fed on a regular basis and gets antibiotics doesn't mean it has a better quality of life. A chicken that runs free but dies in the jaws of a coyote or from some brutal disease is leagues ahead of a prisoner chicken is pumped full of nutrients and medicine in a box.

That said, chickens are awful, stupid creatures who are good for nothing but eating. I just think there's a distinction to be made for their "quality of life" in comparison to similar creatures living a free-range or wild existence.

[Minimalist]

I agree with most of what you said, M/B, except it doesn't really apply in the real world. These caged chickens are agricultural products. The only reason they were born was to be turned into fried chicken. It is not as if someone went out to the "range" and kidnapped them ( Kunte Kinte-style) and threw them into cages.

When the "quality of life" of fucking chickens gets into the discussion things have gone too far!

[Edwardo Piet]

When the "quality of life" of fucking chickens gets into the discussion things have gone too far!

It depends how sentient chickens are.

[Meatball]

I agree with most of what you said, M/B, except it doesn't really apply in the real world. These caged chickens are agricultural products. The only reason they were born was to be turned into fried chicken. It is not as if someone went out to the "range" and kidnapped them ( Kunte Kinte-style) and threw them into cages.

When the "quality of life" of fucking chickens gets into the discussion things have gone too far!

I'm arguing beyond my personal position here, but oh well.

I don't buy "chickens born as a product" as a valid argument that they don't deserve to be treated better. You could have made that argument about people born into the slave trade too. The only reason little Jenkins here was born was to pick cotton. It's not like they were stolen from a village in Africa!

I know that comparison is a stretch, but despite it's mental capacity, a chicken is a living, thinking creature, not a sunflower or an eggplant.

[Minimalist]

It took a Civil War to undo that particular outlook.

I'm not ready to load up my musket to fight for chickens.