Anti Trans And Why It Fails

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Why should the actual transgender population size being relatively small be a reason for anti-transgender sentiment? How can this in any way be a justification? Do you think the same justification can be used for anti-semitism? For open bigotry against the disabled?  It's the fact that the population is small means they are more vulnerable.

^^This.  The purpose of a democracy isn't to hand the majority everything it wants without let or hindrance.  It is to keep the majority from running roughshod over the rights of minorities.

Boru

[Maketakunai]

- Transgender activists are obnoxious.

I know. How dare they demand the same basic human rights as everyone else. It's a wonder why they just don't accept being erased out of existence to satiate other people's bigotry. It is so selfish of them to complain.

I'm still trying to work out the coding for this forum, so for simplicity my response to you will be in bold print.

For the record, define precisely which "rights" you believe are being denied.

- The actual transgender population is a tiny minority. I know 1.6 million people sounds like a lot, but in a population of 326 million people transgenders represent a fraction of a percent of the population.

As usual an American thinking that America equals the entire world.

I'm not a globalist. Whatever is happening in your own country is your own lookout.

Q) Why should the actual transgender population size being relatively small be a reason for anti-transgender sentiment? How can this in any way be a justification? Do you think the same justification can be used for anti-semitism? For open bigotry against the disabled?  It's the fact that the population is small means they are more vulnerable.

I find this to be a complete bullshit position, considering that we are currently on a website where people openly ostracize others for their religious beliefs and political positions.

Frankly, there are larger minority groups who face ACTUAL oppression that deserve more attention than transgenders.  

And what is ACTUAL oppression then and what gives you the right to draw the line? Surely being physically and sexually abused, forced sterilisation, denied basic human rights such as the right to get married or to use the toilet, work place discrimination forcing people into poverty, and all because of a medical condition that they had no choice over, surely this is ACTUAL oppression? Have you experienced oppression yourself? Ever? What makes you think that you have the right to determine whether someone else is being oppressed when you don't even know what the word means. If a small population is facing oppression to the point where well over 40% of them try to commit suicide, surely that is worthy of being called ACTUAL oppression?

You do realize that I have the exact same right to make up my mind about what constitutes oppression as anyone else, don't you? I think you're oppressing me right now by telling me I don't have the right to think my own thoughts...

No one has ever denied people the right to marry, or use the toilet, or "forced people into poverty" for being transgender.  You are confusing the non-right to enter a marriage contract (or any contract) using factually and clerically incorrect information with the right to use your real information on a legal document. You are confusing the non-right to use whatever toilet you want to use with the right to use the toilet that is designated to your biological sex.

Again, I will point out that we are on a website where it's acceptable to openly mock others for their beliefs and opinions until they're driven from the public discourse. So, don't give me a bunch of bullshit about how awful it is to bully people in the workplace or that people you personally support are so thin skinned that they can't handle taking responsibility for their own decisions.[b]

[b][b]Life is not always fair, and the personal decisions people make affect their lives as much as any of this alleged oppression you're nattering on about. Violating social norms in public is a choice. For example: Did you know that 2 genes have been identified that make people more likely to commit crimes because they elevate their anti-social behaviors and tendencies toward violence? Most governments have rightly decided that things like rape, murder, and theft are not in the best interest of society. A person might be born with these genes, but it is only when they act on the behaviors they were born with that they run afoul of society.

Just because someone is "born that way" doesn't mean they should be allowed free reign to act as they please if they expect to be accepted into the society in which they live.

[/b][/b][/b]

- No majority will willing cede special rights and privileges to a mathematically insignificant segment of the population.

But why not cede basic human rights?

You seem to think that a wondrous variety of non-rights are actually rights. What you believe to be "basic human rights" appear to be mostly wishful thinking.


[/b][/b][/b]

- The eagerness of the aforementioned transgender activists to label anyone who thinks trannys aren't really special at all as bigots and homophobes probably creates more enemies than allies.

Or you might just be a bigot with a sense of entitlement and privilege who wants to feel superior to some other group rather than actually better yourself as a person.

And, there is is. You make demands that people subject themselves to your special brand of group-think while treating them in the exact same way you do not want to be treated yourself. THank you for illustrating my point so well.[/b][/b][/b]

[I_am_not_mafia]

Oh FFS it's not hard to reply properly. Easier in fact that embedding your comments in other people's quotes and failing to use the bold tags properly. I'm not going to spend time sorting out your quotes if you can't be bothered to make it easy for people read what you are saying.

But your argument largely boils down to you being ignorant of the subject matter, that life is also shit for other people (rather than yourself) and so trans people should accept a shit life, that the basic human rights that you enjoy aren't actually basic human rights (even though the UN has specified that they are).

[brewer]

Edit: BTW, Gemma says Hi.

[Angrboda]

This is simply a part of a larger assault on identity politics by the right. They want to mute minority voices and concerns and so they argue that identity and politics based on identity such as #BlackLivesMatter is not legitimate and is degrading the engagement of real political issues like taxes and the economy. It's a method to remove the questions that minorities raise from the playing field, a sort of nuclear option. As Syndrome said, "When everyone is super, no one is." They want to silence minority voices so that the only concerns brought to the table are those of the white, male, Christian majority, ignoring that they will not hold that majority much longer. Like the Republican party, which is less well represented in the public than the Democratic party, they want to gain and hold onto control by manipulating the terms of engagement. They can't win within the rules of the game, so they want to change the rules of the game, or prevent the referees in the game from functioning effectively.

[Amarok]

I hope your not serious

Surely you' re not serious...



...


I' m quite serious and quit calling me Shirley....

No your seriously  nitpicking a spelling error while ignoring the vast amount of what i said

---

I hope your not serious

He is.  I think he's referring to you having typed 'gentiles' when you meant 'genitals'.

Boru

Yes i am aware but that's the thing he's going to comment on

---

He is.  I think he's referring to you having typed 'gentiles' when you meant 'genitals'.

Boru

Awww...


Now we' ll never know how long it would have taken him to figure it out..

I figured it out 20 minutes after posting

---

For the record, I'm not anti-transgender. I'm anti-bad argument, and most of your blathering rant is just nonsense. However, it's pretty interesting that you give so much credit to APA and WHO, considering their reclassifications of transgender disorders such as gender dysphoria appear to be pure political theater

 Your statements below do not support this 

The APA, in a 2013 article titled Transgender Today was quite clear stating that while their new official position will be that being transgender is not in itself a disorder, the methods of diagnosis and treatment of transgenders was not actually changing. Their official position was, and still is, that they just don't want there to be a social stigma associated with transgender issues. Since the APA's position is that transgender people require professional mental health diagnosis and treatment because of specifically related mental issues, then it is clearly still considered a disorder to some degree whether they choose to call it one or not.

Disorder associated with being trans does not make trans a disorder and then theirs 

A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons.

According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people who experience intense, persistent gender incongruence can be given the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria." Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated. Others argue that it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care. The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) is under revision and there may be changes to its current classification of intense persistent gender incongruence as "gender identity disorder."

https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx

WHO on the other hand, reclassified transgenderism in a slightly more offensive way. In June 2018 Dr. Jennifer Conti from WHO gave an interview to USA Today and said this: 
“By changing the class of this condition, the WHO is effectively saying to everyone and to the world that this is not a mental disorder and we support people who are transgender. It’s a really meaningful step because it promotes inclusivity, it promotes acceptance.” What Dr. Conti was referring to was the reclassification of transgenderism from a mental disorder a different classification. Now, WHO lumps transgenders together in the same category as peeping toms, sexual sadists, men with erectile dysfunction, and pedophiles. 

Which still back my point that it's not a mental illness and there is another problem with your statement . The "Sexual health issues " is an extremely broad category in relation to Trans there's .

3. Sexual health concerns related to gender

• • Need for gender equality.
    
  • Need for freedom from all forms of discrimination based on gender.
    
  • Need for respect and acceptance of gender differences.
    

And

• Clinical syndromes involving gender identity conflict such as adolescent gender dysphoria.
  

But as the APA points uot there is a difference between tans and gender dysphoria the rest really don't specifically deal with trans 
https://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/t...issues/en/

Clearly, your reason for using APA and WHO as cornerstones of your weird little rant was either ignorance or intellectual dishonesty. That aside, the reason anti-trans sentiment persists is really not difficult to understand. 

To bad it's not my cornerstone nor do you bother to address the majority of what i wrote

- Transgender activists are obnoxious.

Who cares that's not a justification for treating trans people poorly 

- The actual transgender population is a tiny minority. I know 1.6 million people sounds like a lot, but in a population of 326 million people transgenders represent a fraction of a percent of the population.

The size of a majority is of no consequence to how they are treated 

Frankly, there are larger minority groups who face ACTUAL oppression that deserve more attention than transgenders. 

Subjective opinion 

- No majority will willing cede special rights and privileges to a mathematically insignificant segment of the population.

What special rights and that just proves the majority are assholes 

- The eagerness of the aforementioned transgender activists to label anyone who thinks trannys aren't really special at all as bigots and homophobes probably creates more enemies than allies. 

The people they criticize don't do themselves any favors like yourself

- Bad arguments, like yours, simply fail to be convincing and are easily ignored and forgotten.

A thing you have yet to show . Half this post addresses nothing i brought up and the other does not debunk of my key points . So why did you even bother responding ?

[Amarok]

I know. How dare they demand the same basic human rights as everyone else. It's a wonder why they just don't accept being erased out of existence to satiate other people's bigotry. It is so selfish of them to complain.

I'm still trying to work out the coding for this forum, so for simplicity my response to you will be in bold print.

For the record, define precisely which "rights" you believe are being denied.


As usual an American thinking that America equals the entire world.

I'm not a globalist. Whatever is happening in your own country is your own lookout.

Q) Why should the actual transgender population size being relatively small be a reason for anti-transgender sentiment? How can this in any way be a justification? Do you think the same justification can be used for anti-semitism? For open bigotry against the disabled?  It's the fact that the population is small means they are more vulnerable.

I find this to be a complete bullshit position, considering that we are currently on a website where people openly ostracize others for their religious beliefs and political positions.



And what is ACTUAL oppression then and what gives you the right to draw the line? Surely being physically and sexually abused, forced sterilisation, denied basic human rights such as the right to get married or to use the toilet, work place discrimination forcing people into poverty, and all because of a medical condition that they had no choice over, surely this is ACTUAL oppression? Have you experienced oppression yourself? Ever? What makes you think that you have the right to determine whether someone else is being oppressed when you don't even know what the word means. If a small population is facing oppression to the point where well over 40% of them try to commit suicide, surely that is worthy of being called ACTUAL oppression?

You do realize that I have the exact same right to make up my mind about what constitutes oppression as anyone else, don't you? I think you're oppressing me right now by telling me I don't have the right to think my own thoughts...

No one has ever denied people the right to marry, or use the toilet, or "forced people into poverty" for being transgender.  You are confusing the non-right to enter a marriage contract (or any contract) using factually and clerically incorrect information with the right to use your real information on a legal document. You are confusing the non-right to use whatever toilet you want to use with the right to use the toilet that is designated to your biological sex.

Again, I will point out that we are on a website where it's acceptable to openly mock others for their beliefs and opinions until they're driven from the public discourse. So, don't give me a bunch of bullshit about how awful it is to bully people in the workplace or that people you personally support are so thin skinned that they can't handle taking responsibility for their own decisions.[b]

[b][b]Life is not always fair, and the personal decisions people make affect their lives as much as any of this alleged oppression you're nattering on about. Violating social norms in public is a choice. For example: Did you know that 2 genes have been identified that make people more likely to commit crimes because they elevate their anti-social behaviors and tendencies toward violence? Most governments have rightly decided that things like rape, murder, and theft are not in the best interest of society. A person might be born with these genes, but it is only when they act on the behaviors they were born with that they run afoul of society.

Just because someone is "born that way" doesn't mean they should be allowed free reign to act as they please if they expect to be accepted into the society in which they live.

[/b][/b][/b]
But why not cede basic human rights?

You seem to think that a wondrous variety of non-rights are actually rights. What you believe to be "basic human rights" appear to be mostly wishful thinking.


[/b][/b][/b]

Or you might just be a bigot with a sense of entitlement and privilege who wants to feel superior to some other group rather than actually better yourself as a person.

And, there is is. You make demands that people subject themselves to your special brand of group-think while treating them in the exact same way you do not want to be treated yourself. THank you for illustrating my point so well.[/b][/b][/b]

So you whole position can be boiled down to your an asshole who believes for idiotic reasons that trans people should be treated like shit . and it's hilarious you bring up trans rights something that was never point of my post . Very telling . Anyway that all i can stomach of you feel free to respond just don't expect a response . You clearly have nothing of importance to say on this .

---

Now can someone with a brain in their skull who doesn't want to use my thread as a soap box's for their deranged Right Wing whinging and conspiracies please respond .

[Maketakunai]

So you whole position can be boiled down to your an asshole who believes for idiotic reasons that trans people should be treated like shit.

I'm not saying trans people should be treated like shit. I'm simply stating some obvious truths and some personal opinions that you're too much of a crybaby to deal with. I'm sorry if you're just too stupid to understand that in the whole great, big, wide world there are a lot of people who just really don't buy your personal brand of bullshit, but that's really your problem, not mine.

and it's hilarious you bring up trans rights something that was never point of my post . Very telling.

Only to a buffoon. Special rights and privileges like transgenders wanting the right to use bathrooms based on how they feel inside while literally everyone else is regulated by anatomy is a transgender issue. In case you forgot, your retarded rant started with the premise that there is no valid reason for an anti-transgender sentiment. The fact that you are not smart enough to see that very obvious connection illustrates your woeful ability to be a transgender advocate.

So you whole position can be boiled down to your an asshole who believes for idiotic reasons that trans people should be treated like shit . and it's hilarious you bring up trans rights something that was never point of my post . Very telling . Anyway that all i can stomach of you feel free to respond just don't expect a response . You clearly have nothing of importance to say on this .

Now can someone with a brain in their skull who doesn't want to use my thread as a soap box's for their deranged Right Wing whinging and conspiracies please respond .

Your acceptance of my position is not particularly necessary. I really could care less if you buy my personal brand of bullshit or not. That's the difference between you and I. I'm quite comfortable knowing that people disagree with me, while you clearly only want to hear things that fit into your political microcosm. That is also your problem, not mine. After all I'm not the one who started this conversation proclaiming to know all the answers and lost his shit the first time someone posted something I didn't like. That was you...

Perhaps you should just start all your threads with a plea to only respond by sucking your political dick...

[onlinebiker]

[Amarok]

Humor is subjective and i didn't find it funny

---

So you whole position can be boiled down to your an asshole who believes for idiotic reasons that trans people should be treated like shit.

I'm not saying trans people should be treated like shit. I'm simply stating some obvious truths and some personal opinions that you're too much of a crybaby to deal with. I'm sorry if you're just too stupid to understand that in the whole great, big, wide world there are a lot of people who just really don't buy your personal brand of bullshit, but that's really your problem, not mine.

and it's hilarious you bring up trans rights something that was never point of my post . Very telling.

Only to a buffoon. Special rights and privileges like transgenders wanting the right to use bathrooms based on how they feel inside while literally everyone else is regulated by anatomy is a transgender issue. In case you forgot, your retarded rant started with the premise that there is no valid reason for an anti-transgender sentiment. The fact that you are not smart enough to see that very obvious connection illustrates your woeful ability to be a transgender advocate.

So you whole position can be boiled down to your an asshole who believes for idiotic reasons that trans people should be treated like shit . and it's hilarious you bring up trans rights something that was never point of my post . Very telling . Anyway that all i can stomach of you feel free to respond just don't expect a response . You clearly have nothing of importance to say on this .

Now can someone with a brain in their skull who doesn't want to use my thread as a soap box's for their deranged Right Wing whinging and conspiracies please respond .

Your acceptance of my position is not particularly necessary. I really could care less if you buy my personal brand of bullshit or not. That's the difference between you and I. I'm quite comfortable knowing that people disagree with me, while you clearly only want to hear things that fit into your political microcosm. That is also your problem, not mine. After all I'm not the one who started this conversation proclaiming to know all the answers and lost his shit the first time someone posted something I didn't like. That was you...

Perhaps you should just start all your threads with a plea to only respond by sucking your political dick...

So a long pointless fact free barrage of ignorance and hyperbole that has little to do with anything 

Why did you even bother ?