The dawn of civilization

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Now we're into "if the lion politely gave me 45 minutes to prep a pit I could so totally kick it's ass!" territory.

Why don't you just stop?  Yes, you're being ridiculous, and more ridiculous still for having no reason to be so.  WTF are you even droning on about with this "embrace the hunt" shit..lol?  You made a silly statement, about cavemen being dumbasses who fought sabre toothed cats....like you imagine you would if you were a much Chadlier person yourself, lol.

They weren't.  Fact.  End of story.

You don't have to let the lion give you anything.  If you do, you're missing the point.  That's the difference between the "hunter" and the "hunted."  The "hunted" thinks like you.

Think like a "hunter" and you'll realize that the lion(s) have to sleep, you'll know how to cover your scent, you'll know how to draw it to the trap when you are ready.  You assume too much of the lion.  It's not out looking for prey all day.  It's hunts when it's optimal so it has a distinct advantage.  You do the same.  You hunt it so that you have a distinct advantage instead.

End of Story

Yeah, not really the 'end of story'.

Could you explain why Ogg would make all the preparations to go out and hunt lions, a pack animal notorious for being heavy in the teeth, claws, and poor disposition departments, when it would be so much easier to snare unsuspecting herbivores?  You know, dig a pitfall, let the animal trap itself, and then drop rocks on it til it stops wiggling.

Boru

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

you've gone from imagining that cavemen were going mano a mano with sabretooths to some shit about sneaking up on a kitty cat in it's sleep.

*chuckle*  Wait here, fellas.  I'm going to go sneak up on this 800 lb lion who's having a kip.  If I'm not back by morning, go on without me...

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

Uncle Ogg didn't actually do much digging, either.  No spade.  They were limited to antler picks and small bone shovels.  Most pit or fall traps would have been naturally occurring. Big game would have been darted, small game snared...but..mostly, they just ate plants.

[T0 Th3 M4X]

You don't have to let the lion give you anything.  If you do, you're missing the point.  That's the difference between the "hunter" and the "hunted."  The "hunted" thinks like you.

Think like a "hunter" and you'll realize that the lion(s) have to sleep, you'll know how to cover your scent, you'll know how to draw it to the trap when you are ready.  You assume too much of the lion.  It's not out looking for prey all day.  It's hunts when it's optimal so it has a distinct advantage.  You do the same.  You hunt it so that you have a distinct advantage instead.

End of Story

Yeah, not really the 'end of story'.

Could you explain why Ogg would make all the preparations to go out and hunt lions, a pack animal notorious for being heavy in the teeth, claws, and poor disposition departments, when it would be so much easier to snare unsuspecting herbivores?  You know, dig a pitfall, let the animal trap itself, and then drop rocks on it til it stops wiggling.

Boru

Multiple reasons, but the big one would be because those carnivores will eat the herbivores that you want to eat.  You'll have to control the population.  If not the population of carnivores will steadily increase, and the herbivores rapidly decrease, then you might really have problems then. You could become the new food source by default or those carnivores might see you as disrupting their territory and become aggressive as to try to protect themselves.

"Easier" isn't always what's best.

[The Grand Nudger]

-and yet there's no evidence that they did this for -any- reason.

Unlike you, they were intelligent people who saw no point in taking a needless risk. For all of that practical smarts, though..neolithic peoples had absolutely no concept of wild game management, and by the time that they did begin to express one (towards the beginning of the post pottery period) it was through barricading and domestication, not predator eradication. In plain point of fact, it was human predation that destabilized those populations of game animals, and not anything other carnivores did. The most successful predators in the world (aside from ourselves) have horrendously low success rates when it comes to getting a kill.

[T0 Th3 M4X]

Uncle Ogg didn't actually do much digging, either.  No spade.  They were limited to antler picks and small bone shovels.  Most pit or fall traps would have been naturally occurring.

Since when do you need a spade to dig?  Think man, think.  Do you really think it's that hard for someone to dig a hole without a special tool?

You'll spend more time crying about how something can't be done, rather than just going out and finding a way to do it.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Yeah, not really the 'end of story'.

Could you explain why Ogg would make all the preparations to go out and hunt lions, a pack animal notorious for being heavy in the teeth, claws, and poor disposition departments, when it would be so much easier to snare unsuspecting herbivores?  You know, dig a pitfall, let the animal trap itself, and then drop rocks on it til it stops wiggling.

Boru

Multiple reasons, but the big one would be because those carnivores will eat the herbivores that you want to eat.  You'll have to control the population.  If not the population of carnivores will steadily increase, and the herbivores rapidly decrease, then you might really have problems then. You could become the new food source by default or those carnivores might see you as disrupting their territory and become aggressive as to try to protect themselves.

"Easier" isn't always what's best.

Basic population dynamics:  population of predators never outstrip populations of prey, it isn't mathematically possible (see Malthus).  And given the relatively sparse populations of humans in the late Paleolithic, it's hard to imagine that humans were a serious competitor with other predatory species (varied diets and all that).

Boru

[T0 Th3 M4X]

-and yet there's no evidence that they did this for -any- reason.

Uh huh. Well after this discussion, I would assume you would be too lazy to pick up a book and check because it might be too hard, and therefore impossible for you. *rolls eyes*

But hey, it's not illegal to wrap yourself in a blankie with a juice box in your hand and watch everybody else accomplish things.  To each his own.

---

Multiple reasons, but the big one would be because those carnivores will eat the herbivores that you want to eat.  You'll have to control the population.  If not the population of carnivores will steadily increase, and the herbivores rapidly decrease, then you might really have problems then. You could become the new food source by default or those carnivores might see you as disrupting their territory and become aggressive as to try to protect themselves.

"Easier" isn't always what's best.

Basic population dynamics:  population of predators never outstrip populations of prey, it isn't mathematically possible (see Malthus).  And given the relatively sparse populations of humans in the late Paleolithic, it's hard to imagine that humans were a serious competitor with other predatory species (varied diets and all that).

Boru

Full reference?

[The Grand Nudger]

-and yet there's no evidence that they did this for -any- reason.

Uh huh. Well after this discussion, I would assume you would be too lazy to pick up a book and check because it might be too hard, and therefore impossible for you. *rolls eyes*

But hey, it's not illegal to wrap yourself in a blankie with a juice box in your hand and watch everybody else accomplish things.  To each his own.

 If you want to cite some source other than your own silly fantasies about men, you can do so at any time. That's your baby, not mine.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

-and yet there's no evidence that they did this for -any- reason.

Uh huh. Well after this discussion, I would assume you would be too lazy to pick up a book and check because it might be too hard, and therefore impossible for you. *rolls eyes*

But hey, it's not illegal to wrap yourself in a blankie with a juice box in your hand and watch everybody else accomplish things.  To each his own.

---

Basic population dynamics:  population of predators never outstrip populations of prey, it isn't mathematically possible (see Malthus).  And given the relatively sparse populations of humans in the late Paleolithic, it's hard to imagine that humans were a serious competitor with other predatory species (varied diets and all that).

Boru

Full reference?

'An Essay On The Principles Of Population', by Thomas Malthus.

Boru