Illegal Immigration

[Pat Mustard]

The real issue is how everyone looks at this.   Lots of people believe its a race issue that you don't want them here because they are Mexican or not what ever.  Yet the reality is you would not have a party at your house and let just anyone walk in.  You invite those you trust. If you have a open door policy eventually someone will enter the party who doesn't like the music and try to change it. The owner of the house then gets up set that his music was changed and then there is a controversy. Its about providing a safety net for those who are already here.  Simple solution is for the left to give the money for the wall with stipulations on the amount of immigrants who can come in every year. The right would have to agree to a certain amount of immigration.   Then both sides get close to what they want.  Then the people who feel death is going to ride in from the south unchecked are happy. The people who feel that the poor and desolate people of Mexico need to  have a place to come look for the dream are happy.  Yet  the dream seems like a night mare anymore.  I suppose when your country will let Chevrolet work you for 2 dollars a day though  America does seem like a dream.  That was a guess on the two dollars don't take that literal.

And your point is?

Your point doesn't hold because you're comparing apples to parsnips.

[FlyingNarwhal]

[Yonadav]

[FlyingNarwhal]

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Let's throw caution to the wind and imagine that Trump gets a better Wall than he ever imagined, even in his wettest of dreams.  Fifty feet high, twenty feet thick, machine gun emplacements along the top, and fronted by a 100 foot wide moat, chock-a-block with perpetually pissed off crocodiles. A Wall that is unclimbable, uncuttable, and un-dig-underable.  Such a barrier would have zero effect on illegal immigration into the US.  Why? Because you've got tens of thousands of miles of border that AREN'T walled off.

Clearly, people are willing to form caravans and travel 1500 miles or more in order to get into the US.  Some of these poor sods even go to the extent of paying coyotes to sneak them across the border - I've read that $2000 per head is the going rate, more for kids.  For that kind of money, you can obtain a set of false identity papers and boat passage into the US (there's some evidence that drug cartels are already providing this service).  For a little more, you can get the papers and a flight to Canada, then enter the US.

So, unless you plan to wall off your whole damned civilization, this is an idea that goes nowhere.

Boru

[Mister Agenda]

[quote='Mister Agenda' pid='1876421' dateline='1547226146']

We are a vast country with a low average population density. With its aging population and reproduction below replacement, the USA absolutely needs more people to sustain its long-term tax base and labor needs. The Hispanic immigrants we allow in now will produce the generation that we need to be in place when all the Baby Boomers are over 70.
[quote="arewethereyet" pid='1876908' dateline='1547393461']
Bolded - I still struggle with quotes and replies here...

What you say sounds as though you think there should be immigration regardless of the intention to work toward citizenship because the US needs breeding stock.

I think our immigration laws are badly in need of reform and that the quota for our close neighbor Mexico should be higher than for Kazakhstan or Cameroon. And whether we let people cross our border is a separate issue from immigration. Most of the people crossing our borders illegally just need work visas. Our refusal to allow them is a big cause of the situation we're in: We demand labor, but we don't allow the people we need legal entry.

Understand, under current immigration law, there is no possible way for the vast majority of people south of our border who would want to can ever become US citizens. And if there's no way they can do it legally, the more desperate among them will do it illegally. Our immigration laws are badly broken and the root cause of most of the problems attributed to the destitute people who have to deal with them.

[Jackie]

Let's throw caution to the wind and imagine that Trump gets a better Wall than he ever imagined, even in his wettest of dreams.  Fifty feet high, twenty feet thick, machine gun emplacements along the top, and fronted by a 100 foot wide moat, chock-a-block with perpetually pissed off crocodiles. A Wall that is unclimbable, uncuttable, and un-dig-underable.  Such a barrier would have zero effect on illegal immigration into the US.  Why? Because you've got tens of thousands of miles of border that AREN'T walled off.

Clearly, people are willing to form caravans and travel 1500 miles or more in order to get into the US.  Some of these poor sods even go to the extent of paying coyotes to sneak them across the border - I've read that $2000 per head is the going rate, more for kids.  For that kind of money, you can obtain a set of false identity papers and boat passage into the US (there's some evidence that drug cartels are already providing this service).  For a little more, you can get the papers and a flight to Canada, then enter the US.

So, unless you plan to wall off your whole damned civilization, this is an idea that goes nowhere.

Boru

Replace "Hispanics" with "Jews" and to his supporters ask if WW2 German Scapegoating and vilification is any different than what the orange turd is doing now.

I know you are not saying that Boru, but there are too many on the right, that think history cannot repeat itself in America. Just adding to what you just posted. In that the "wall" is simply pandering to fear mongering bigots. 

But the parallels are glaring in tactics.

Blame anyone who says boo to you, vilify rivals, attack the media, and offer yourself up as the only cure. Scapegoat everyone else. 

"Make Germany Great Again".

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Let's throw caution to the wind and imagine that Trump gets a better Wall than he ever imagined, even in his wettest of dreams.  Fifty feet high, twenty feet thick, machine gun emplacements along the top, and fronted by a 100 foot wide moat, chock-a-block with perpetually pissed off crocodiles. A Wall that is unclimbable, uncuttable, and un-dig-underable.  Such a barrier would have zero effect on illegal immigration into the US.  Why? Because you've got tens of thousands of miles of border that AREN'T walled off.

Clearly, people are willing to form caravans and travel 1500 miles or more in order to get into the US.  Some of these poor sods even go to the extent of paying coyotes to sneak them across the border - I've read that $2000 per head is the going rate, more for kids.  For that kind of money, you can obtain a set of false identity papers and boat passage into the US (there's some evidence that drug cartels are already providing this service).  For a little more, you can get the papers and a flight to Canada, then enter the US.

So, unless you plan to wall off your whole damned civilization, this is an idea that goes nowhere.

Boru

Replace "Hispanics" with "Jews" and to his supporters ask if WW2 German Scapegoating and vilification is any different than what the orange turd is doing now.

I know you are not saying that Boru, but there are too many on the right, that think history cannot repeat itself in America. Just adding to what you just posted. In that the "wall" is simply pandering to fear mongering bigots. 

But the parallels are glaring in tactics.

Blame anyone who says boo to you, vilify rivals, attack the media, and offer yourself up as the only cure. Scapegoat everyone else. 

"Make Germany Great Again".

Christ on a bike, but I wish people would stop comparing Trump to Hitler.  Trump isn't Hitler.  Trump isn't like Hitler.  You know who's like Hitler? Hitler, that's who.

Boru

[Jackie]

Replace "Hispanics" with "Jews" and to his supporters ask if WW2 German Scapegoating and vilification is any different than what the orange turd is doing now.

I know you are not saying that Boru, but there are too many on the right, that think history cannot repeat itself in America. Just adding to what you just posted. In that the "wall" is simply pandering to fear mongering bigots. 

But the parallels are glaring in tactics.

Blame anyone who says boo to you, vilify rivals, attack the media, and offer yourself up as the only cure. Scapegoat everyone else. 

"Make Germany Great Again".

Christ on a bike, but I wish people would stop comparing Trump to Hitler.  Trump isn't Hitler.  Trump isn't like Hitler.  You know who's like Hitler? Hitler, that's who.

Boru

Why? 

He talks the same. He attacks rivals, he scapegoats multiple minority groups, he attacks the free press. 

I wish more people WOULD equate him to Hitler. 

Now is it harder for him to do the same thing with the system we have set up? That is a better argument. But the fucker is trying everything he can to destroy our institutions and that cannot nor should be ignored. 

The only way he does not do what Hitler does is participation. 

I have no doubt that if our Constitution were not there, he'd make a great dictator. 

He is attacking our FBI constantly, even those Republicans in the FBI. The guy is a despot wannabe. PERIOD.

Just because he has not completely destroyed our checks and balances so far does not mean long term, our institutions cannot be destroyed. 

I make no apologies nor do I have the slightest bit of hesitation in saying he'd become a dictator if he has the chance.

[LadyForCamus]