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RE: whats your opinion of Deism?
September 5, 2011 at 1:13 pm
(September 5, 2011 at 8:18 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: firstly I am not aware that science has reached a inal conclusion on the "something from nothiing" hypothesis.
Well yes they have seeing as the Big Bang theory is solid, they presume or can prove so I'm told that the universe came from a Primeval atom (says so right in Wiki), if this alpha atom existed where did it come from, what was there before the big bang?
Now I think it's common sense to ask the question, worse still is we know that it is impossible for nothing to create something ..... it cannot happen.
I'm using bunny's Big bang theory here mines even more complicated but hey.
(September 5, 2011 at 8:18 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Define your concept of chaos?? For me the actions of the universe look rather chaotic with no senmse of order...except if you are refering to the order found in physics??
Chaos = no order whatsoever, no meaningful action, no sense of direction, no intelligent method of doing anything, letting Minimalist loose in a room full of theists etc etc.
Order found in physics, order found in the recycling properties of the universe ...... I could go on, but we always come down to the same point.
Your que as an atheist is to say "you don't know and can't prove it" I then say it back and on square 1 we still stand.
I do actually have some interesting theories based on some work I've done and some problems I've had with certain current models, but in all fairness if you as an atheist have decided to stop looking I can't or don't see the point in trying to change your mind.
Just know that a Deist by nature studies science and the Universe as we believe if God is an Architect the way to get in the mind of the creator is to study their work.
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RE: whats your opinion of Deism?
September 5, 2011 at 1:15 pm
(This post was last modified: September 5, 2011 at 1:18 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Yep, it's common sense to ask that question. It is not common sense to respond with "goddidit". I'm not an atheist because I've I've stopped looked. I'm looking, and what I see is an abyss. That is why I'm an atheist. We aren't on the same square. We're not even playing the same game. You ask, I explain. I ask, you throw your hands in the air.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: whats your opinion of Deism?
September 5, 2011 at 1:17 pm
(This post was last modified: September 5, 2011 at 1:23 pm by Diamond-Deist.)
(September 5, 2011 at 8:18 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Nice bit of rhetoric and sarcassm there diamond.
I can't tell if your being serious, but if you are you must know I couldn't have done it without Minimalist, he must share the credit as he initiated the Flak Jacket thing.
(September 5, 2011 at 1:15 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Yep, it's common sense to ask that question. It is not common sense to respond with "goddidit". I'm not an atheist because I've I've stopped looked. I'm staring into an abyss, and that is why I'm an atheist. We aren't on the same square. We're not even playing the same game. You ask, I explain. I ask, you throw your hands in the air.
Maybe you have not asked me the right questions.
My Goddidit is the conclusion I draw from your BB theory (primeval atom), my ideas would be a lot harder to answer yet 10 times more interesting imo.
And over the next 8 years it may become fact not theory (less the dramatics).
Your Goddidit would be 13.7 Billion years old (which I find ridiculous) my Goddidit could be Trillions and trillions of years old, were talking grand scale.
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RE: whats your opinion of Deism?
September 5, 2011 at 1:29 pm
(September 5, 2011 at 1:13 pm)Diamond-Deist Wrote: Well yes they have seeing as the Big Bang theory is solid, they presume or can prove so I'm told that the universe came from a Primeval atom (says so right in Wiki), if this alpha atom existed where did it come from, what was there before the big bang?
That there was a big bang is certain, what caused the bang is up for debate.
There are quite a few theories.
watch the below you tube series from a british science programme to get a flavour of how the picture has changed since you last looked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bGx3UB-Slg
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: whats your opinion of Deism?
September 5, 2011 at 1:31 pm
(This post was last modified: September 5, 2011 at 1:34 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Wait, wait, 8 years and "Goddidit" becomes a reality? Prophecy? Why not 7, or 3, or 4.32 billion? People have done the legwork for you on this one. Proper protocol on prophecy is to leave as much time on the table as possible so as to be dead when the date arrives. This avoids the uncomfortable position of having to explain one's self to the parents of those who drank the kool-aid (or those that opted out of the kool-aid, and instead threw in cold hard cash).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: whats your opinion of Deism?
September 5, 2011 at 1:43 pm
(This post was last modified: September 5, 2011 at 1:51 pm by Diamond-Deist.)
(September 5, 2011 at 1:31 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Wait, wait, 8 years and "Goddidit" becomes a reality? Prophecy? Why not 7, or 3, or 4.32 billion? People have done the legwork for you on this one. Proper protocol on prophecy is to leave as much time on the table as possible so as to be dead when the date arrives.
yada yada yada yada .... bunny you continue to underestimate me without actually knowing what I'm referring too, I'm disappointed in you.
I keep getting told I'm not being forthcoming but yet nobody actually asks me what I'm referring to and then wonders why I don't bother. 
(September 5, 2011 at 1:29 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: That there was a big bang is certain, what caused the bang is up for debate.
There are quite a few theories.
watch the below you tube series from a british science programme to get a flavour of how the picture has changed since you last looked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bGx3UB-Slg
I'm watching it and enraged as I am, had to stop it 1 minute in to vent, your like christians clinging to the bible .... I'll continue watching now (sigh).
Erhh hemm 1:50 restores my faith in humans, lets continue I'll be let down at some point I'm sure.
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RE: whats your opinion of Deism?
September 5, 2011 at 1:48 pm
(This post was last modified: September 5, 2011 at 1:50 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Perhaps you should work on communicating your ideas more clearly. Just tell me where I've misunderstood and it'll all be better. I'd rather strangle the ideas you hold than the ones you don't.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: whats your opinion of Deism?
September 5, 2011 at 2:08 pm
(September 5, 2011 at 1:48 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Perhaps you should work on communicating your ideas more clearly. Just tell me where I've misunderstood and it'll all be better. I'd rather strangle the ideas you hold than the ones you don't.
Downbeatplumb are you kidding me? what am I supposed to garner from that 5min excerpt, I'm going to have to watch all of it now before I come back and verbally bash you with it.
Ok bunny in roughly 8 years the James Webb Space Telescope will be going up and should give the best pic yet of distance and detail of the universe we've had yet to date.
The oldest star is the HE 1523 which is 13.2 billion years old-just slightly younger than 13.7 billion year age of the universe.
If that new telescope finds anything older (which I believe it will) that is a sledge hammer to the current theory.
Lets be honest on today's calculations alone there are sextillion stars etc, if the Universe is 13.7 Billion how many stars is that per year being made? work that out.
So no one has to die before that bit of evidence comes into play.
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RE: whats your opinion of Deism?
September 5, 2011 at 2:11 pm
(This post was last modified: September 5, 2011 at 2:12 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You hadn't heard?
http://news.discovery.com/space/james-we...10714.html
(Unless you have some updates to this, it's looking like there will be no JWT)
Regardless, how about we wait until it does find something, rather than confidently declare that there is something to be found?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: whats your opinion of Deism?
September 5, 2011 at 2:39 pm
(This post was last modified: September 5, 2011 at 2:41 pm by Diamond-Deist.)
(September 5, 2011 at 2:11 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You hadn't heard?
http://news.discovery.com/space/james-we...10714.html
(Unless you have some updates to this, it's looking like there will be no JWT)
Regardless, how about we wait until it does find something, rather than confidently declare that there is something to be found?
Well it was on then off then on again for 2018 according to Wiki, they'll put it up eventually they've already put billions in.
That's perfectly fine with me I can wait and I'm expecting a big fat negative for the BB theory and then they'll have to find some super duper darker than dark matter to make the theory stick. 
..... you any good at math?, do the stars bit!
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