Whyizit?

[The Grand Nudger]

Absolutely, there would be plenty of people who kept their guns.  The reason that this isn't all that worrisome..is that those people are both unlikely to use their gun in the commission of a crime..and have turned down an offer of purchase -for- their guns...indicating that they lack the primary motivation for gun trafficking.    Traffickers compulsively game buybacks, they don't refuse to sell.

Those people who would sell those guns that are used in the commission of crimes, as our trace data indicates..are exactly the people and guns that buybacks hit. Cheap used pistols, and criminals who can only afford cheap used pistols. Trouble is, there's a fucking lot of them (both).

[onlinebiker]

What are the chances that a buyback programme in the US would be successful?

Boru

I think most sane firearm owners would give them up for compensation, but just like religion, there are far right firearm nuts who'd think it was the end of the world and become terrorists to try to keep them.

You are an idiot.


Go to a " gun buy back".

See what gets " bought back".

Junk. Unreliable scrap -that' s worth less than the $50 they are paid. Very few are anything a self- respecting criminal would carry. 

You have absolutely no knowledge of the subject, no experience in the field - and yet you run your gob incessantly.

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Absolutely, there would be plenty of people who kept their guns.  The reason that this isn't all that worrisome..is that those people are both unlikely to use their gun in the commission of a crime..and have turned down an offer of purchase -for- their guns...indicating that they lack the primary motivation for gun trafficking.    Traffickers compulsively game buybacks, they don't refuse to sell.  

Those people who would sell those guns that are used in the commission of crimes, as our trace data indicates..are exactly the people and guns that buybacks hit.  Cheap used pistols, and criminals who can only afford cheap used pistols.  Trouble is, there's a fucking lot of them (both).

Yeah sure.. Criminals PAY for things.....

[The Grand Nudger]

Yeah, they do........?

That's -why- the cheapest guns, junk..even.. are so well represented in trace data. Go take a look, I left the link.

But, as far as the other comment..yeah, we'd end up buying a bunch of junk, too. Otherwise known as components. Which also find their way into crime as reassembled and resold second hand firearms (and even has it's own category in that trace data..people actually build themselves frankenguns that just barely (or don't) work..and then commit crimes with them, lol). We still end up getting alot of functional pistols..so I'm not sure why also biting into the storehouse of potential components for functional guns would be a bad thing?

So what if we get some junk with our merch? 5.7 billion dollars buys alot of merch. You could include a differential pricing scheme for junk, if you wanted..but there's no explicit need to do so. The general reason that they accept junk is to promote the environment of amnesty that these transactions depend on. Some guy has a hot pistol (or a pile of them), he may not actually know whether or not it's (or which among them is) junk..he may test it out, he may not, but the whole thing is alot easier for him if he can just go sell it no questions asked.

There are tons of guns, this makes them easily accessed. If we want to reduce the number of guns, in america...without some crazy scare bullshit confiscation, we're looking at a buyback. Whatever else we do to reduce gun crime, a buyback reenforces by default of access and economics. There will always be someone who can get a gun, if there are fewer guns, and more expensive guns..some portion of people who might otherwise get a gun, simply wont. A gun buyback is the government exerting direct influence on gun trafficking rather than driving it wholly underground. Accepting that people do and will traffic, and making themselves one of the more likely points of terminus for any given piece.

These pieces, not your pieces, are the ones most likely to be used in the commission of a crime..and these people, not people like you, are the most likely to sell their guns..that's already what they do. A buyback isn't even aimed at you, which I figure you'd appreciate? I wouldn't sell any of my guns either....but I probably would dump some junk on em (even at a reduced price).

What does Wall do, again, for the same price?

[onlinebiker]

Gun buyback - getting ineffective, inaccurate guns " off the streets" - so manufacturers can build reliable, accurate ones for the criminals to steal.


Yeah boy - whatta plan!!!!

[The Grand Nudger]

Gun buyback - getting ineffective, inaccurate guns " off the streets" - so manufacturers can build reliable, accurate ones for the criminals to steal.


Yeah boy - whatta plan!!!!

Yeah, it's a great plan, since those inneffective innacurate guns are the guns recovered and described in the data I linked you...and the new guns are overwhelmingly not, and it gets guns, which there are alot of, off the streets.

What exactly is your issue with a buyback, lol? That a buyback won;t prevent every single crime of every kind from occurring? That there are thieves in the world? Well, no shit...but so what? The thieves fence their stolen shit...we'll be buying the stolen guns from them. It's a voluntary program that will reduce the number of guns and their ease of access while producing much needed financial relief for gun owners. Cash for clunkers, for reference, was only a 3 billion dollar program. If it also boosts gun manufacturers sales of new guns, say a person trades in all their old shit and buys a nice new pistol...what's the problem?

Recall the other plan? To build Wall. I feel like I'm not in on some joke that you're telling?

[onlinebiker]

Gun buyback - getting ineffective, inaccurate guns " off the streets" - so manufacturers can build reliable, accurate ones for the criminals to steal.


Yeah boy - whatta plan!!!!

Yeah, it's a great plan, since those inneffective innacurate guns are the guns recovered and described in the data I linked you...and the new guns are overwhelmingly not, and it gets guns, which there are alot of, off the streets.

What exactly is your issue with a buyback, lol?  That a buyback won;t prevent every single crime of every kind from occurring?  Well, no shit...but so what?  It's a voluntary program that will reduce the number of guns and their ease of access while producing much needed financial relief for gun owners.

What' s the problem??

The problem is the governmental indoctrination of the public to the idea of " bad guns".

Do you actually believe that if a criminal sells his cheap piece of shit gun - he' s going to retire from a life of crime?

My guess he is going to upgrade to a better weapon.


Good go - your buyback subsidizes crime...

Bottom line - there are no bad guns. Just bad people.

[Brian37]

You cant have it both ways. You cant continue to shout "NO" after we agree guns should be kept out of the wrong hands.

If the level of firearm deaths and injuries in America are acceptable to you, then there is something severely disturbing about that mindset.

[The Grand Nudger]

What' s the problem??

The problem is the governmental indoctrination of the public to the idea of " bad guns".

WTF are you talking about?  I'm talking about taking the set of firearms described by federal trace and recovery data as the most likely to be used in the commission of a crime and removing a substantial number of them from circulation.  

Do you actually believe that if a criminal sells his cheap piece of shit gun - he' s going to retire from a life of crime?

No, why would I?

My guess he is going to upgrade to a better weapon.

Your beliefs are contradicted by trace and recovery data.  

Good go - your buyback subsidizes crime...

Bottom line - there are no bad guns. Just bad people.

.......jesus christ.............

If we note that 13k out of 21k previously unaccounted for guns used in crimes are cheap pistols...it stands to simple fucking reason that we would want to reduce the number of unnaccounted for cheap pistols in circulation. Cheap pistols may not be "bad guns", but they're sure as shit the guns that bad guys use.

That's (at least part of) why gun bans haven't worked. We've been focusing on a category of firearms that just isn't well represented in trace or recovery data. Any time we focus on handguns, we see immediate results. It;s almost like theres a pattern, or something.....

[onlinebiker]

You cant have it both ways. You cant continue to shout "NO" after we agree guns should be kept out of the wrong hands.

If the level of firearm deaths and injuries in America are acceptable to you, then there is something severely disturbing about that mindset.

Fuck you. Every bit of your post reeks of bullshit misdirection.

1. Not asking for " both ways".
2. Nobody' s shouting anything.
3. I never said the level of firearm violence is accepable.

So take your lying sideways shit, sharpen it up and stick it up your ass.

You are a cunt.

[Brian37]

Now he wants to argue, "There are no bad guns, just bad people".

Ok, sure, there are greedy people who want to flood the market for profit despite that those products should not be in the hands of everyone. Just like tobacco marketed to kids and minorities  and lied for decades about the health risks, and got caught and were fined and forced to stop that marketing.

Ok, there are also no bad nukes either. Just bad people with them, like Russia, and China. So just because humans make nukes anyone can have them? We should simply pump nukes out like candy and let anyone have them?

No bad guns? Right? Everyone needs an A-R15 even though the inventor said he never intended it for civilian use?

And it is a damned good thing Nader never said shit about the safety of cars, lucky us we still have cars without seat belts and air bags and gas still has lead in it.

I agree, objects are merely objects, but there are people who make and sell objects that are dangerous and can hurt people and should be regulated or improved to be less dangerous.

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Remember the Tacata air bags? I am old enough to remember the Ford Pinto which had a bad muffler design and when in a crash it could pierce the gas tank.

This is absurd to claim that guns should not be regulated, if at the same time we also would want police and military to be trained to use them. Now please do not stupidly claim that the average civilian has the same constant level of training as a police officer or military member.

By your logic, if someone knows how to do CPR that qualifies them to crack open a chest and use scalpels. Guns are not toys and should not be made like toys or handed out like toys. If your goal is to keep them out of the wrong hands, and I agree, we should take more care on who gets them, and yes, even the designs and size for the people who want them.