[Serious] Family Rifts

[mlmooney89]

Sorry I'm long winded. Half rant half I don't know what to do.

I have the age old question on how to deal with family you can't handle anymore. I put this as serious because I know the first response from a lot of people is to just drop the family member, tell them to fuck off, never see them again. In reality though that doesn't always work. I am looking for advice on not only how to handle her but on if I'm being petty. We all should know by now that I have a large petty streak and I'm trying to better myself by asking myself if I am being childish about things before flying off the handle. My family keeps making me feel like I'm part of the problem here and I personally feel like I'm the only one standing up like we should so I'm conflicted. Despite any spats we've had here on AF.org I do trust this site and its members more than anywhere or anyone else. I know y'all will either tell me to grow up or I will feel confident to stand my ground.

Quick back story: My family dissolved when I finally told on my step father for abusing me. My mom didn't fully believe me for years. Step dad ended up killing himself so now they believe me. Due to this our family has had a hard decade. At any given moment we (my mom, two sisters, and myself) can get into a screaming/crying fight. It has gotten better over the years but only the last two have been decent. The youngest sister was 10 when everything went down so she practically grew up in a civil war.

Problem: Youngest sister is a fucking bitch and I'm tired of her emotional abuse.

Everything is about Caitlin. Everyone does everything for her and walks on eggshells around her. She gets pissed off at the slightest thing and will blow up causing everyone to get upset and start screaming. She is rude to our mom (which is always what triggers me) and says/acts however she pleases. My mom and other sister have decided it is just easier to cater to Caitlin than deal with her anger. I on the other hand don't accept this. I call her out for being mean, for treating people like shit, and for never accepting that she might be wrong. Because of this she hates me and feels like I'm always targeting her. This is why my family always says I'm the bad guy cause I start shit when I should keep my mouth shut. I keep saying I'm done with her and stop speaking to her but then I get in trouble for causing drama and not being part of the family. "She's your sister" is what I keep getting told as to why I can't cut her out of my life. I usually cave and go back into the family unit because I feel guilty.

What Caitlin has done may seem trivial on paper but all these things really upset me. Aside from her every day issues where she says something horrible to mom and I have to tell her to stop talking like to our mother she has done a few bigger things. 1) She came to my bridal shower and sat in the corner sulking the entire time but we ignored her 2) She also came to my bachlorette party where my aunt isn't used to her attitude. Aunt got upset she was listening to headphones and ignoring everyone at dinner and it started a huge fight. We had to leave the restaurant and go straight home since everyone was crying. 3) She was then forced to come to my wedding and wasn't in any of my family photos. We stopped speaking for 6 months and then we were civil in front of each other. 4) I texted her I was pregnant (since she wouldn't come over to my mom's house) and I got back "congrats" 5) A few months later I texted her that the baby was a girl and got nothing back.

6) Christmas day this year. She got a gun from her husband and when she was opening it and looking at it she was accidentally pointing it right at me and my daughter. I said "Hey let's not point that at people" and all hell broke loose. She accused me of being offended by everything and being scared of guns (mind you I own my own gun and carry it on my belt) started screaming about how she "took a class" and knows how to handle guns, exclaimed she didn't "aim" it at me, and that it wasn't loaded. I told her it doesn't matter if it's not loaded you always treat it like it is (that's when she accused me of being scared of guns) I literally didn't say another word but by then my mom was accusing us of ruining another Christmas and storming off, my other sister Jesse was screaming and crying about how we can't go one day without fighting, and Caitlin shut down completely. Mom came back and asked why she can't just apologize and move on (I was already trying to move on by acting like it hadn't happened) Caitlin said "Because she isn't sorry" I literally have been in the same room as Caitlin twice since that day and she acts like I am not there. She only goes to my mom's house to drop off and pick up her son. 7) We were supposed to have a mini vacation for us girls that the three of us sisters planned and agreed to pay for. After this ordeal Caitlin refused to text me back but would text Jesse about her wedding details, she refused to come on the vacation, and Jesse and I had to foot the entire bill ourselves.

I want to be done and stop giving her chances, I'm tired of being the bad guy for standing up to her walking all over everyone, and I can't just sit by and watch her do it. I'm sick of her playing the victim and giving us the cold shoulder for months on end. How do you cut someone out of your life though they share the same family members? How can I tell my mom to stop forcing Caitlin to MY special events because she always ruins them? My mom wants us girls to all get along and be civil but am I wrong to say no I will celebrate Christmas with them another day when Caitlin isn't there? I love Caitlin's son and I get to see him when I stay with my mom over the weekend and he does as well and I don't want that taken away but if I cut ties with Caitlin I KNOW she will take him from me, she already tried once. After my wedding he said that Caitlin told him they were never going to see me again. Is there even a way to stop associating with someone you have so many connections to?

[SteelCurtain]

Hey mooney, good to see ya. Sorry you're dealing with family shit. Been there, done that. Here's what I learned:

1) Prioritize. It sucks, but you have to decide whether your current level of relationship with your family is worth a) Your heightened frustration and stress level, and b) your relationship with your nephew.

2) Develop boundaries. Clear lines past which you won't engage. Let everyone know about them give a couple of warnings, and then STICK TO THEM. These are if-thens that you develop. Make them fair. Compromise--you gotta give something up. Own that some of the fractured relationship is likely on your reactions to things and 'playing old tapes.' Some examples:
- I will no longer raise my voice in conversations/arguments. If you raise your voice at me, then the conversation is over.
- If you threaten to take family away, then the conversation is over.
- If you continue to make family outings awkward and about you, then you will no longer be invited.

I would also have a conversation with your mother and tell her how you feel, then ask her what she expects of you. Don't respond to what she expects of you, but ask if you can think about things and get back to her. She might say something that is 100% out of bounds or something like "I just want you to get along." Think about it, mull it over when you are less emotionally close to the conversation. Then you can come up with boundaries to express to your mother.
- I am no longer going to sacrifice my emotional wellbeing in order to "keep the peace."
- I will leave any situation I feel jeopardizes this.

Last, my advice is to try as hard as you can to not own other people's shit. You are not your mother's guardian. I know you feel protective of her, and watching her being talked to a certain way is excruciating, but you cannot be her shield from her own family's shit. She needs to learn to do that. At some point the boundaries she has failed to set for herself leave you in the lurch trying to keep people from stepping on those boundaries. See---whether you say something to your sister or not, your mother heard those words and chose to react whatever way she did. I would suggest that you also have a boundary with your mom that you won't watch her be berated and not stick up for herself. That will be a hard one to keep, but if you leave everytime sister says some shit and your mom does nothing, maybe she'll learn to do something.

I sincerely hope shit gets better, Mooney.

[arewethereyet]

Sucky situation all around sounds like.

My mother caused a huge rift in our family that divided all three of us kids from dad and drove a wedge between my sister and I that lasted about a decade. During that time my brother and I still talked but we are so far apart in age that we were never really close anyway.

We are all aware how toxic mom is. My brother talks to her on the regular. My sister waits till she gets the whiney voicemail and then breaks down and calls her. I do not deal with mom. She will call now and then but it's always more of her self-serving BS. I am simply over it. I don't need the poison that she spews or the needless drama she leaves in her wake.

I made a full break and I end phone calls quickly and curtly. I hate that she upsets my sister but my sister has to make her own decision...she knows what any dealings with mom results in...there will be lies and manipulations and snide remarks...no one can push buttons quite like mommy dearest. I can't do anything about the relationship between mom and my siblings...it's not my job and they are grown adults who can determine their own boundaries. I have asked my siblings and my kids (also grown) to please not make me the topic of any discussion they have with mom. Of course, I can't control that either but I did ask.

Luckily we are miles from one another so there isn't that extra pressure of get-togethers and holidays...no one wants to spend a holiday with mom....not even her baby boy.

You have to realize that you can control your relationship with other family members. And...other than your minor children...you cannot control the relationships your family members have with one another.


I agree with SteelCurtain in the importance of setting boundaries.


Would you voluntarily spend time with someone who acts the way your family does? Being related doesn't mean you have to be in the middle of someone's toxicity.


- Families are dangerous places.

[EgoDeath]

Honestly, I see some similarities between your sister and my mother. My mother is never wrong, constantly does whatever she wants and has to have all of the attention on her, gets into fights/arguments with family members and will refuse to apologize or admit she played any part in what went wrong. She has my grandparents wrapped around her finger and it's pretty shitty at times. When I stand up to my mother I'm often give grief about it by my grandparents; they'll tell me, "She's your mother, you need to let it go/stop being angry at her/let go of the past," - even though it's not the past I'm angry about, it's the repetitive behaviors that have been occurring for years, that are still occurring, that she never apologizes for and probably never will apologize for. The bottom line: my mother is a generally unhappy person in my opinion and causes problems for people around her instead of dealing with her own shit. She's been this way all of my life and has never shown any signs of change, so I have no reason to think she will change. My mom will probably be the way she is for the rest of her life. Everything's about her. She's never wrong and it is always someone else's fault. She has no plans for her future (she's almost 50 now and doesn't hold a steady job or source of income) and doesn't seem to be too concerned with figuring that out. It is what it is.

I have learned, and in some ways still am learning, to love my mother from a distance. I don't think any of us can really tell you to cut your sister or family off, but there will have to come a point when you draw some kind of line. What that line looks like is, obviously, up to you. What I can say is that the situation with your family sounds incredibly stressful and I don't blame you for feeling fed up. It sounds like your sister, maybe because she's the youngest, is babied by the family and has been allowed to get away with a lot because of it. If I were you, I would certainly consider limiting contact with the family. Not saying you have to cut anyone off or tell anyone to go fuck themselves, as I don't really think those options are necessarily healthy anyways, but I would certainly think about how much time you want to spend around them versus how much time you can handle spending around them. Finding that balance may not be easy and none of us can really give you an answer on that, but it's something to think about.

As far as your sister walking all over everyone else... is it really your responsibility to stick up for your mother or other siblings? I would say it isn't. I would stick up for yourself when you feel like you're being wronged, and stand your ground to a point that's appropriate, but beyond that, sticking up for everyone else is an exercise in futility. Your family cannot tell you what your personal boundaries are; that is something that is totally up to you. So when your sister is being a bitch to you, absolutely stick up for yourself and don't apologize for it. But when it comes to everyone else I would honestly just stay out of it - is it really worth the frustration? You've gotten to a point where it seems like you're pretty fed up with it all from the looks of it.

Being everyone's defender isn't getting you what you want out of the situation, so I'd give it a rest/learn how to let it go. But never compromise your own self-respect for the sake of not rocking the boat; if your sister is disrespecting you, you're totally entitled to stand up for yourself, within reason.

The problem with stuff like this is that feedback helps, hopefully, but it's ultimately up to you to decide what you are and are not willing to put up with. I wish you luck. Family stuff like this sucks and has been a source of great discomfort for me for many years and in some ways still is. But we can only control ourselves and our reactions to things, so maybe it's time to work on that.

[brewer]

^^^ All good stuff.

M89, sounds like you (and mom) should probably do some reading on how to deal with a narcissist. I'd suggest read up on passive aggressive also. Psychology Today has a lot of good articles on both. 

And good luck, these people are never easy to get along with. The approach I most often take it just not letting them get under my skin (make light of their over the top crap behavior). If I can't accomplish that then I'll remove myself from the situation as gracefully as possible.

Edit: She does not sound like the type of person you want to be around with fire arms.

[SteelCurtain]

I wanted to clarify---a lot of times people want the reaction. The fight isn't the end goal, it's seeing and proving that they can affect you, control you.

Take that away from them. Work on remaining dead calm and watch how people react when there aren't two screaming people in a room, but just one.

[TaraJo]

The harsh truth to personal conflict is this: You can't let your happiness depend on other people. If they want to screw things up, if they want to fight and scream and abuse and lie and manipulate, well, let them..... but you have to learn to take care of yourself despite it.

And as mean as it might sound, sometimes you have to distance yourself from someone you care about because they're hurting you and maybe even hurting themselves. If you let them pull you down, you won't be there to help pull them up, later, when they start to get their shit together.

Sometimes, it can hurt, but you just have to be able to move on.

[brewer]

The harsh truth to personal conflict is this:  You can't let your happiness depend on other people. If they want to screw things up, if they want to fight and scream and abuse and lie and manipulate, well, let them..... but you have to learn to take care of yourself despite it.

And as mean as it might sound, sometimes you have to distance yourself from someone you care about because they're hurting you and maybe even hurting themselves.  If you let them pull you down, you won't be there to help pull them up, later, when they start to get their shit together.

Sometimes, it can hurt, but you just have to be able to move on.

Well howdy Tara. Ain't seen you in these parts in a coons age.

[TaraJo]

The harsh truth to personal conflict is this:  You can't let your happiness depend on other people. If they want to screw things up, if they want to fight and scream and abuse and lie and manipulate, well, let them..... but you have to learn to take care of yourself despite it.

And as mean as it might sound, sometimes you have to distance yourself from someone you care about because they're hurting you and maybe even hurting themselves.  If you let them pull you down, you won't be there to help pull them up, later, when they start to get their shit together.

Sometimes, it can hurt, but you just have to be able to move on.

Well howdy Tara. Ain't seen you in these parts in a coons age.

Yeah, I've been going through a lot lately and having a few other people to talk to can help.  And for an antisocial bitch like me, "talking" seems to be easier when it involves typing away at a keyboard and hitting a "post reply" button.

Or something like that.

Truthfully, there's a drinking with atheists event for a local atheist group tomorrow.  I want to go, but since I have work Saturday morning, I can't stay out too terribly late (can't drink too much, either, but that's something I should be watching out for anyway).

[EgoDeath]

I wanted to clarify---a lot of times people want the reaction. The fight isn't the end goal, it's seeing and proving that they can affect you, control you.

Take that away from them. Work on remaining dead calm and watch how people react when there aren't two screaming people in a room, but just one.

For some people, that gets them worked up even more. My grandparents are like that. My grandparents are very kind-hearted people and have done so much for me and the rest of the family; I and damn near everyone else in my family owe them more than I could ever repay them. With that being said, they are absolutely terrible at handling disagreements and conflicts. They have zero clue how to stay calm during a disagreement and completely blow everything out of proportion. Staying calm in the face of their anger will only make them angrier. I've had situations where I made sure not to raise my voice or saying anything insulting/out of line only to have them accuse me of subtly trying to mock them and make them feel stupid. I can't tell if they're legitimately that twisted up or if it's some form of manipulation to try and get some kind of emotional reaction out of me. And I suspect that they want to get a reaction out of someone when they're fighting, and it bothers them when they can't do so. Both my grandmother and my grandfather are like this.

So unfortunately, the 'stay dead calm' tactic doesn't always work. It is worth a try though. With many or even most people, staying dead calm make them realize just how ridiculous they're being in a situation. Once they realize that they're the ones getting worked up over nothing and acting like fools, it gasses them out.