I wan't to express, that I disliked Rick and Morty season 3

[LastPoet]

Tried to watch it.


It's like steel panties, hard to get into.

You tried steel panties? What were you doing? Jousting?

[Der/die AtheistIn]

Perhaps. But have you ever wondered why the protagonist Rick - the Rick-est Rick of all - hates the idea of a Citadel, has very low opinion of other Ricks and is able to outsmart them with relative ease? Maybe the message is, that bureaucracy and conformity make Ricks dumb and ineffective - enough for someone like Evil Morty to exploit that. 

Also - Americans elected Donald Trump to be their president 2 years ago. I rest my case.   

About that. I remembered in the first episode with the citadel. There Rick calls the council hypocrites, because they themselves created a government so that they can hide from another government. Well, unless they said that it's impossible for any good  government to exist they're not hypocrites, at least not in this scenario. To me it seems like the show it's implying (maybe not intentionally) that the sole existence of a government or any authority figure is bad and that anarchy is the answer, which believe me, it's not. As stupid and/or evil most rulers can be, the civilized countries wouldn't be the way they are without the existence of a high power.

Sure. I wasn't implying that the episode belongs in the fantasy genre, just that sci-fi has to take real life natural laws into account. The mad scientist trope does make it - technically - sci-fi. But the idea of people transforming into inanimate objects (and back), while retaining some human traits, like their personality, intellect, voice, face - that's something straight out of fairy-tales. But mostly - it's a wacky cartoon thing.

As I said, it doesn't matter if it's ridiculous or bizzare, as long as science is the single explanation given it's pure sci-fi. Sci-fi doesn't actually have to take real life natural laws into account, it just needs to have a world with it's own natural laws. Said world may or may not have some of the same laws that exist in our own world.

That's jokes. Having similar jokes is one thing, repeating the same plot is another. Sure - they could have done it. But the point is - they didn't have to if they didn't want to.

I'd prefer much more repeating plots than jokes. As I stated before, rule number 1 of comedy is that a joke isn't funny anymore or at least it's less funny if you repeat it. A story however is less likely to become boring the second time you hear it. Even for someone who likes "groan humor", wouldn't they get bored after hearing the same joke over and over? The majority of the planet dislikes repeating jokes, it's a bad decision to repeat jokes if you're going mainstream. You're also more likely to not stand the test of time. If you are going to use a "groan joke", why not make a funny one surrounding the boring one? This way you're going to make more people happy.
And I do think that there are other good options the creators could've used for evil Morty to gain power without repeating the same plot.

[Homeless Nutter]

About that. I remembered in the first episode with the citadel. There Rick calls the council hypocrites, because they themselves created a government so that they can hide from another government. Well, unless they said that it's impossible for any good  government to exist they're not hypocrites, at least not in this scenario. To me it seems like the show it's implying (maybe not intentionally) that the sole existence of a government or any authority figure is bad and that anarchy is the answer, which believe me, it's not. As stupid and/or evil most rulers can be, the civilized countries wouldn't be the way they are without the existence of a high power.

Agreed - let's not... err... do anarchy, I guess.

I don't think the show is implying, that anarchy is generally preferable. Rick calls other Ricks hypocrites, because he himself despises authority, he can't stand anyone having power over him and he considers that a defining characteristic of a Rick. Therefore he assumes, that most, if not all other Ricks feel the same way, but they become what they hate, out of convenience.

Also, please keep in mind - because many people seem to have trouble grasping this - Rick is NOT a good guy, or a role model in the show. He's obviously and admittedly - a self-centered a**hole and just because he says, does or thinks something, doesn't mean, that it's what the writers think the whole world should be doing.

As I said, it doesn't matter if it's ridiculous or bizzare, as long as science is the single explanation given it's pure sci-fi. Sci-fi doesn't actually have to take real life natural laws into account, it just needs to have a world with it's own natural laws. Said world may or may not have some of the same laws that exist in our own world.

In a sci-fi story any relevant laws of nature, that differ from the ones we know from reality, still have to be accounted for. By which I mean - they have to be made clear to the audience. Otherwise - it's a fairy-tale, or a confusing mess. Or a cartoon, as the case may be. Anything can happen in a cartoon - Bugs Bunny can fly into space and annoy Marvin the Martian, but few people would call that "pure sci-fi".

I'd prefer much more repeating plots than jokes.

Your preferences notwithstanding - jokes are usually brief and if the viewer doesn't like one - it's gone in 3 seconds and is replaced by the next joke. If the viewer has to watch the whole episode, where the plot is very similar to an earlier episode - they have a lot of time to be p*ssed off.

As I stated before, rule number 1 of comedy is that a joke isn't funny anymore or at least it's less funny if you repeat it.

Yeah... That's only true about certain kinds of jokes. There are countless examples of jokes and gags, that are being repeated to great - often increasing - comedic effect. Think of "South Park" - how many times did they kill Kenny? Think of "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!" Think of classic slapstick comedy - like a pie to the face. Humor is not as simple and black-and-white as you seem to imagine. And rules are meant to be broken - especially in comedy.

A story however is less likely to become boring the second time you hear it. Even for someone who likes "groan humor", wouldn't they get bored after hearing the same joke over and over?

Not necessarily. Many people watch their favorite bad movies - and laugh at them - over and over again. Many fans of certain shows, or movies memorize their jokes and use them as a way to connect with other fans of the same things. Most groups of friends have inside jokes, which are repeated. Not all jokes have to make you roll on the floor laughing, in order to be worthwhile. Humor is - at its core - a form of human social interaction, deeply embedded in our psychology - it's not just an intellectual exercise in subverting expectations.

The majority of the planet dislikes repeating jokes,

Lol... One day you'll grow up and you'll realize, that you're not the spokesperson for the majority of the planet...

it's a bad decision to repeat jokes if you're going mainstream. You're also more likely to not stand the test of time. If you are going to use a "groan joke", why not make a funny one surrounding the boring one? This way you're going to make more people happy.
And I do think that there are other good options the creators could've used for evil Morty to gain power without repeating the same plot.

I'm sure they could have. There are infinitely many ways to write any story, but someone has to make choices - usually within a restricted time-frame. The writers did what they did and most fans seem to be fine with it, so... I guess they made the right choice?

[Der/die AtheistIn]

Homeless Nutter

Agreed - let's not... err... do anarchy, I guess. 

I don't think the show is implying, that anarchy is generally preferable. Rick calls other Ricks hypocrites, because he himself despises authority, he can't stand anyone having power over him and he considers that a defining characteristic of a Rick. Therefore he assumes, that most, if not all other Ricks feel the same way, but they become what they hate, out of convenience. 

Also, please keep in mind - because many people seem to have trouble grasping this - Rick is NOT a good guy, or a role model in the show. He's obviously and admittedly - a self-centered a**hole and just because he says, does or thinks something, doesn't mean, that it's what the writers think the whole world should be doing. 

Sure, he is supposed to be a bad guy, but he easily outsmarts the other Ricks and we never hear another opinion on this matter. He also manages to destroy the citadel. Sure, the bad guy doesn't have to loose in order to show that he is in the wrong, but you have to do more than to show that he's a general asshole. They used so much monologue this season, why not use to show some of the character political opinions? It doesn't have to be long and words can be interesting.

In a sci-fi story any relevant laws of nature, that differ from the ones we know from reality, still have to be accounted for. By which I mean - they have to be made clear to the audience. Otherwise - it's a fairy-tale, or a confusing mess. Or a cartoon, as the case may be. Anything can happen in a cartoon - Bugs Bunny can fly into space and annoy Marvin the Martian, but few people would call that "pure sci-fi".

You are right, just because something follows all the rules of a sci-fi, it doesn't mean it's pure sci-fi. I would consider Pickle Rick and your example with Bugs Bunny comedic sci-fi. I'm not referring to all Bugs Bunny cartoons, only to this particular example, I'm also not stating that all jokes in this Bugs Bunny cartoon are sci-fi. Classic cartoons have been known to break the laws of physics, this is surreal humor.
And the rules don't have to be stated or explained in a sci-fi, it's enough to claim that the reason is science. Take Dexter's Lab for instance, it's clearly stated to be sci-fi and not phantasy, yet numerous ridiculous things happen to him. He once got turned by his computer in a sandwich with a face, glasses and shoes. Badly written, ambiguous or comedic sci-fies are still sci-fies.

Your preferences notwithstanding - jokes are usually brief and if the viewer doesn't like one - it's gone in 3 seconds and is replaced by the next joke. If the viewer has to watch the whole episode, where the plot is very similar to an earlier episode - they have a lot of time to be p*ssed off. 

You do have a point and I must admit that I wasn't specific enough. I meant repeating a plot approximately, not 100% percent. My idea that evil Morty controls the mind of a Rick isn't supposed to be exactly like the original. What I suggested was that he controls ones mind and does horrible things with it, but this time he has other plans. If a villain has mind control power and uses it multiple times, no fan will complain, as long as it's different enough each time. Why would it be different with evil Morty? Mind control might not be a superpower in his case, but it is a power. 

Not necessarily. Many people watch their favorite bad movies - and laugh at them - over and over again. Many fans of certain shows, or movies memorize their jokes and use them as a way to connect with other fans of the same things. Most groups of friends have inside jokes, which are repeated. Not all jokes have to make you roll on the floor laughing, in order to be worthwhile. Humor is - at its core - a form of human social interaction, deeply embedded in our psychology - it's not just an intellectual exercise in subverting expectations.

Yes, I myself repeat good jokes or watch again and again funny movies, what I was complaining about is when a creator uses the exact same jokes multiple times in their work or doesn't make good changes. Usually I find jokes less funny the second time, but I might return to them to remember how good they were at first and how much they made me laugh. And usually jokes aren't the only reason why I rewatch movies. Granted, there are hidden jokes, but I only find them funny after hearing or seeing them more times because I didn't (fully) understand them the first time. Also, good running  gags work only because they are different every time they repeat, and the changes are good.

Lol... One day you'll grow up and you'll realize, that you're not the spokesperson for the majority of the planet... 

I was referring to mass media. Again, I should've been more specific. I don't think that this show is trying dry humor. I thought that the first and second season were pretty funny, while the third wasn't. I doubt that they'll intentionally change the style of humor now that they became so popular. In fact I also believe that the show lost quality partially because it wants to fit in with the crowd so much. 
 

I'm sure they could have. There are infinitely many ways to write any story, but someone has to make choices - usually within a restricted time-frame. The writers did what they did and most fans seem to be fine with it, so... I guess they made the right choice?

Well, Rick and Morty has a longer hiatus than most shows do. Also, they hired more writers, maybe that's a case of too many cooks spoil the broth. 
Also, the fact that the majority likes it, doesn't make it good.

[Yonadav]

The Rick that we are following seems to be sort of the most reckless of all Ricks. It's a nod to quantum suicide. We are following the Rick that survives all of his deaths.

[Homeless Nutter]

Sure, he is supposed to be a bad guy, but he easily outsmarts the other Ricks and we never hear another opinion on this matter. He also manages to destroy the citadel. Sure, the bad guy doesn't have to loose in order to show that he is in the wrong, but you have to do more than to show that he's a general asshole.

Yes, in a more realistic setting that's definitely advisable. But this particular situation is very far removed from any reality we know. I don't think the Citadel is meant to be a direct representation of real life governments, or authorities. Especially that in another episode Rick and Morty face off against the actual government. But even if I'm wrong and the creators do have some anarchistic sympathies (which wouldn't be unheard of in the world of artists) - I still don't see the problem with that. It's a cartoon. No one in their right mind bases their political views on a cartoon.

They used so much monologue this season, why not use to show some of the character political opinions? It doesn't have to be long and words can be interesting.

No, that would just be "South Park". Parker and Stone get a lot of criticism for spelling out political messages on their show. I doubt Harmon and Roiland want that hate-mail.

Rick (the protagonist) is essentially a nihilist, which is made quite clear. As such - he doesn't really appear to have strong political opinions - because he only cares about politics, when it gets in his way.

You are right, just because something follows all the rules of a sci-fi, it doesn't mean it's pure sci-fi. I would consider Pickle Rick and your example with Bugs Bunny comedic sci-fi. I'm not referring to all Bugs Bunny cartoons, only to this particular example, I'm also not stating that all jokes in this Bugs Bunny cartoon are sci-fi. Classic cartoons have been known to break the laws of physics, this is surreal humor.
And the rules don't have to be stated or explained in a sci-fi, it's enough to claim that the reason is science. Take Dexter's Lab for instance, it's clearly stated to be sci-fi and not phantasy, yet numerous ridiculous things happen to him. He once got turned by his computer in a sandwich with a face, glasses and shoes. Badly written, ambiguous or comedic sci-fies are still sci-fies.

But other genres can use sci-fi elements and even settings, without being generally perceived, or classified as sci-fi. Many people - myself included - don't consider "Star Wars" sci-fi. And cartoons are a grey area, because we don't apply the same standards of realism and consistency to animation, as we instinctively do to most forms of story-telling. Perhaps that's because of the association with children's entertainment.

As I said - "Pickle Rick" episode was technically sci-fi, but I don't think that classification does it any favors. It's a decent enough 20 min comedy cartoon, but pretty sloppy and far-fetched by science-fiction standards.

You do have a point and I must admit that I wasn't specific enough. I meant repeating a plot approximately, not 100% percent. My idea that evil Morty controls the mind of a Rick isn't supposed to be exactly like the original. What I suggested was that he controls ones mind and does horrible things with it, but this time he has other plans. If a villain has mind control power and uses it multiple times, no fan will complain, as long as it's different enough each time. Why would it be different with evil Morty? Mind control might not be a superpower in his case, but it is a power. 

Maybe because after it was uncovered, that Evil Rick was controlled by unknown someone, Ricks became more cautious about this kind of thing? Is it too difficult to imagine, that since Evil Morty's power was based on technology, then it could be countered by Ricks' technology - once they became aware of it? Does the show have to explain itself every time the story goes a different way than you'd have liked?

Ricks electing an evil child for leader was a funny idea, especially since Americans elected an obvious incompetent racist oaf from reality TV, which is something very few believed could happen before 2016. I don't see how complicating the story would have made it better, especially when the creators seem to be pretty serious about their creative freedom to subvert expectations.

Yes, I myself repeat good jokes or watch again and again funny movies, what I was complaining about is when a creator uses the exact same jokes multiple times in their work or doesn't make good changes. Usually I find jokes less funny the second time, but I might return to them to remember how good they were at first and how much they made me laugh. And usually jokes aren't the only reason why I rewatch movies. Granted, there are hidden jokes, but I only find them funny after hearing or seeing them more times because I didn't (fully) understand them the first time. Also, good running  gags work only because they are different every time they repeat, and the changes are good.

Sure, but it's all really subjective. You have to accept, that even your favorite show isn't made only for you. And that this particular show's creators are known to happily go from sophisticated philosophical ideas to stupid jokes in a manner of seconds - it's their stylistic choice, which I - for one - admire.

I was referring to mass media. Again, I should've been more specific. I don't think that this show is trying dry humor. I thought that the first and second season were pretty funny, while the third wasn't. I doubt that they'll intentionally change the style of humor now that they became so popular. In fact I also believe that the show lost quality partially because it wants to fit in with the crowd so much. 

Yes, that's a common accusation thrown at entertainment, that gains mainstream popularity. Maybe you're right, but I think it's too early to tell. Let's wait and see whet the next season is like.
 

Well, Rick and Morty has a longer hiatus than most shows do. Also, they hired more writers, maybe that's a case of too many cooks spoil the broth. 
Also, the fact that the majority likes it, doesn't make it good.

No, but it doesn't automatically make it bad, either. Personally - I don't feel this season was on average worse than previous ones, although the novelty has worn off a bit, so it's easier to look at the show with a critical eye.

[paulpablo]

I had some mild laughs but I think this cartoon is pretty mediocre.

What killed it for me is some episode where they did some awful , AWFUL, rap dance type thing within the episode, I'm sure some of the characters were rapping. I didn't really like it in the Simpsons when they started dancing and singing but this was worse.

[Shell B]

I'm never a fan of breaking into song . . . with very few exceptions. Family Guy does amazingly well, and comedy musicals, like some of the Star Kid ones, can get me laughing.

[Der/die AtheistIn]

Yes, in a more realistic setting that's definitely advisable. But this particular situation is very far removed from any reality we know. I don't think the Citadel is meant to be a direct representation of real life governments, or authorities. Especially that in another episode Rick and Morty face off against the actual government. But even if I'm wrong and the creators do have some anarchistic sympathies (which wouldn't be unheard of in the world of artists) - I still don't see the problem with that. It's a cartoon. No one in their right mind bases their political views on a cartoon.

Well, I still consider a bad message a bad message, even if nobody takes it seriously. You have the right to watch what you enjoy. I'm not exactly trying to change your opinion, it's more that I want to express what I personally feel. Also, if you express a good message, even with a cartoon, even in a comedic way, you might convince some that this message is good. If someone takes example from this cartoon, they weren't in their right mind in the first place and there are other things that might've influenced them negatively. And to be clear, I wasn't stating that the creators are anarchists, I just said that this show looks a lot like that's the case. It might not have been intentional.

No, that would just be "South Park". Parker and Stone get a lot of criticism for spelling out political messages on their show. I doubt Harmon and Roiland want that hate-mail.

Rick (the protagonist) is essentially a nihilist, which is made quite clear. As such - he doesn't really appear to have strong political opinions - because he only cares about politics, when it gets in his way.

I understand that they don't want hate e-mail, but would they be really like "South Park" if a character didn't believe that the council is hypocritical for creating a government? What if the council responded to Rick that becoming a government themselves doesn't make them hypocrites? It would've been short and not much of a political matter, but more about hypocrisy.

But other genres can use sci-fi elements and even settings, without being generally perceived, or classified as sci-fi. Many people  - myself included - don't consider "Star Wars" sci-fi. And cartoons are a grey area, because we don't apply the same standards of realism and consistency to animation, as we instinctively do to most forms of story-telling. Perhaps that's because of the association with children's entertainment.  

As I said - "Pickle Rick" episode was technically sci-fi, but I don't think that classification does it any favors. It's a decent enough 20 min comedy cartoon, but pretty sloppy and far-fetched by science-fiction standards.

While people transforming into animals or objects is a current thing in phantasy, sometimes being able to talk, I never read any fairytale where it's stated that an object has a face. Also, I have a genuine question. Is there any organisation that decides what every genre is?

Maybe because after it was uncovered, that Evil Rick was controlled by unknown someone, Ricks became more cautious about this kind of thing? Is it too difficult to imagine, that since Evil Morty's power was based on technology, then it could be countered by Ricks' technology - once they became aware of it? Does the show have to explain itself every time the story goes a different way than you'd have liked?

No, it doesn't. But if not given a certain information, people may interpret things differently. I understand that not every show is for me, there are plenty of things that I like and some others don't. Having evil Morty using mind control wouldn't be the only direction that I would've enjoyed.

Ricks electing an evil child for leader was a funny idea, especially since Americans elected an obvious incompetent racist oaf from reality TV, which is something very few believed could happen before 2016. I don't see how  complicating the story would have made it better, especially when the creators seem to be pretty serious about their creative freedom to subvert expectations.

I personally don't see this as funny, and I'll tell you why. 1. The Ricks are supposed to be geniuses. I understand that dizzy geniuses aren't uncommon in the media, but have them be so oblivious to the world while the main Rick is a lot more competent, it makes me confused. Even for a comedy. It reminds me of Dexter's Lab again. In one episode he has gas after eating a burrito and makes an experiment in which he inflates a balloon in order to see what happens. The balloon explodes and so he thinks he will die. No real life person would think that that's the case, but that's about it. I found the rest of the jokes funny and this show doesn't care about continuity. Also, Dexter's Lab had a lot less serious moments than Rick and Morty. 2. Evil Morty while a kid, he is also a genius. We don't know if the Ricks know that or not. I did complain about him being a child in the OP, but more because his opponents are so immature that I don't have any clue if he is supposed to be like an adult only in comparison to them or not. There is also the fact that evil Morty is competent, serious, calm and gives pretty good speeches, while Trump is obnoxious and can be impolite. Maybe the joke was that even a kid is more competent than Trump, but it doesn't work for me if said kid is a genius and I don't see enough Trump references to know that that's the case. 3. You yourself said earlier that this wasn't probably a joke, just a plot point. Maybe the're not trying to make fun of Trump in (particular), but the same applies to every politician, whenever they refer to a particular one or not.

Sure, but it's all really subjective. You have to accept, that even your favorite show isn't made only for you. And that this particular show's creators are known to happily go from sophisticated philosophical ideas to stupid jokes in a manner of seconds - it's their stylistic choice, which I - for one - admire. 

I agree that humor is subjective. As I said earlier, you have the right to watch what you will. I still don't consider the show something for me.

No, but it doesn't automatically make it bad, either. Personally - I don't feel this season was on average worse than previous ones, although the novelty has worn off a bit, so it's easier to look at the show with a critical eye.

I personally still dislike it, but if you like it, more power to you. At the end of the day you decide what you should watch or not.