Identity Politics

[Yonadav]

 

Can you see why, as a response to the subject of the wage gap - no less.. that might cause some people to wonder whether you've been recruited to the dark side, lol?   

If I explore a valid point and the response is that I get is being accused of being recruited to the dark side, I don't care.  If people want to be irrational, I can't stop them. But I don't have to humor them.

[The Grand Nudger]

If you didn't care you wouldn't have such a reaction to identity politics.  Not that it matters whether or not you care, I asked you if you could understand why other people might suspect that you are not, in fact, a member of their group..when you take it upon yourself to espouse the rhetoric of the other group?

As noted "but it's true!" doesn't really matter with identity politics, as the example of white grievance makes wonderfully clear..and, as contended by advocates of male greivance, the feminist plot of the wage gap would. You may simply be dealing with a situation in which you've been left behind by your political identity, like so many working class white males imagine themselves to have been.

For their part, I'm sure that the feminist plotters would love to be able to convince you that patriarchal conceits and grievances trap males just as effectively as they trap females - that if you find yourself opining on just how shitty you have it relative to some girl...that might actually be an artifact of the same phenomena - and thus, that you should include yourself in their identity, if you want that to change. If the game of politics truly is zero sum as the underlying assumption you're working on must be - then the other guys winning means you lose too. Good luck to em, lol.

[Yonadav]

If you didn't care you wouldn't have such a reaction to identity politics.  Not that it matters whether or not you care, I asked you if you could understand why other people might suspect that you are not, in fact, a member of their group..when you take it upon yourself to espouse the rhetoric of the other group?

As noted "but it's true!" doesn't really matter with identity politics,  as the example of white grievance makes wonderfully clear..and, as contended by advocates of male greivance, the feminist plot of the wage gap would.  You may simply be dealing with a situation in which you've been left behind by your political identity, like so many working class white males imagine themselves to have been.

For their part, I'm sure that the feminist plotters would love to be able to convince you that patriarchal conceits and grievances trap males just as effectively as they trap females - that if you find yourself opining on just how shitty you have it relative to some girl...that might actually be an artifact of the same phenomena - and thus, that you should include yourself in their identity, if you want that to change.  If the game of politics truly is zero sum as the underlying assumption you're working on must be - then the other guys winning means you lose too.  Good luck to em, lol.

I stopped reading your post after the first sentence. I hate identity politics because it is going to cause the left to self destruct. Identity politics has largely been popularized by the media because the identity wars are juicier fare than the left's struggle to promote democratic socialism. Identity politics is a poison pill that has been fed to the left by socially liberal free market libertarians.  Being socially liberal doesn't cost them anything; but socialism will. Libtards are stooges for free market libertarians who want to destroy cohesiveness on the left.

[The Grand Nudger]

Libertarians were more an intermediary in the exchange than anything, but they were intermediaries for things like race realism, climate denial, and male grievance - generally by means of "skepticism".  It doesn't seem like identity politics is causing the left to self destruct.  It's fueling pop vote wins and blue waves as the left constructs a new american identity to appeal to, which, in the rights estimation, leaves middle american white males, the traditional american..behind.

Socialism....? Cohesiveness? In a coalition built around the inclusion of more identities into the american identity...don't you think that pushback against that might be more perilous? It has the dual effect of allowing the right to set the narrative of the left while simultaneously proclaiming that the left is hypocritical for having abandoned those identities they paid lip service to in order to build that coalition. If you're worried about some sort of centrist new dem drift, isn't spreading the talking points of the right and criticizing what you see as the "far left" going to accomplish exactly that?

I think that you hate "identity politics" because you've been told to, and further have been misinformed as to what identity politics is..as well as who it is that's telling you these things.
(I'm only playing along, ofc, you're a poe.... )

[Yonadav]

Libertarians were more an intermediary in the exchange than anything, but they were intermediaries for things like race realism, climate denial, and male grievance - generally by means of "skepticism".  It doesn't seem like identity politics is causing the left to self destruct.  It's fueling pop vote wins and blue waves as the left constructs a new american identity to appeal to, which, in the rights estimation, leaves middle american white males, the traditional american..behind.

Socialism....?  Cohesiveness?  In a coalition built around the inclusion of more identities into the american identity...don't you think that pushback against that might be more perilous?  It has the dual effect of allowing the right to set the narrative of the left while simultaneously proclaiming that the left is hypocritical for having abandoned those identities they paid lip service to in order to build that coalition.  If you're worried about some sort of centrist new dem drift, isn't spreading the talking points of the right and criticizing what you see as the "far left" going to accomplish exactly that?

I think that you hate "identity politics" because you've been told to, and further have been misinformed as to what identity politics is..as well as who it is that's telling you these things.
(I'm only playing along, ofc, you're a poe....  )

You continuously assert that socially liberal politics and identity politics are the same thing. Largely, the difference between socially liberal and identity politics is the line between liberal and illiberal. The left absolutely is tearing itself apart. Take the socially liberal Bret Weinstein who was violently driven out of Evergreen by identity politics koolaid drinkers.

[The Grand Nudger]

Because they are.  The right has driven an increasingly successful wedge between them as a response to their effectiveness.  Some on the left have swallowed that pill out of fear of a whitelash. You keep saying that the left is tearing itself apart..but from where I sit, it's winning every front..culturally and politically.

The fever pitch of the white genocide narrative coming out of the right establishes as much, even if they're utter nutballs. Personally, IDK if the left as it is winning is the best thing for america, or if the tools that the left has used to do so are the best tools...but hey. It works.

Weinstein, the self described "left libertarian" who opposed a white grievance grab at a college?

"There is a huge difference between a group or coalition deciding to voluntarily absent themselves from a shared space in order to highlight their vital and underappreciated roles (the theme of the Douglas Turner Ward play Day of Absence, as well as the recent Women's Day walkout), and a group encouraging another group to go away," Weinstein wrote. "The first is a forceful call to consciousness, which is, of course, crippling to the logic of oppression. The second is a show of force, and an act of oppression in and of itself."

So.....um, which racial identity politics faction do -you- imagine got all up in a tizzy about that?

[Yonadav]

Because they are.  The right has driven an increasingly successful wedge between them as a response to their effectiveness.  Some on the left have swallowed that pill out of fear of a whitelash.  You keep saying that the left is tearing itself apart..but from where I sit, it's winning every front..culturally and politically.

Socially liberal politics are winning, but the identity freaks are turning on the liberals.

[The Grand Nudger]

IDK Yon, I think you might have that one exactly backwards in precisely the way that the right has been screeching about. It would be an enormous coincidence if the two things were wholly unrelated, but anythings possible, I guess?

[Athene]

Identity Politics- a feeble insult a subgroup of white males tosses around to express their frustration at various other demographics within the electorate for being derelict in their duty of recognizing white males as the baseline norm.



Lmfao

[Yonadav]

Here's an article that is a perfect example of Identity Politics. The article is written by a woman who baselessly asserts that stories about Amy Klobuchar being a somewhat abusive boss are sexist. If one follows the line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, then it is not possible to talk about a female boss being a bit abusive without it being sexist. The article gives some examples of abusive male bosses, claiming that they aren't held to the same standard. Amusingly, one of the examples is Rahm Emanuel. I know Rahm. Not real well. But my favorite thing to do with him was to basically act like I didn't know he was. I never talked with him about politics, or the fact that he was mayor of Chicago, or that he had been Obama's chief of staff. I always talked to him like he was just another schmuck. And he would keep looking at me like, "Hey man, you know who I am, right?". And I would completely ignore that. Anyway, Rahm has an awful reputation for being a rather unpleasant personality to work with. If he tried to run for president, everyone would be all over him about it. He would get shot down for his foul temper and profanity so fast that it would make your head spin.

So anyway, when people tell stories about a woman being sort of an abusive boss, simply accusing them of sexism is really weak, and the strategy is just to make it socially unacceptable to criticize a woman's management style. You know, just because she is a woman.

I would like to note that I am not criticizing Amy Klobuchar. As far as I know, she has not claimed that the complaints against her are sexist. She seems to be a little tougher than that. I don't want her to get the nomination because she is a centrist. But I otherwise like and admire her quite a bit. And when she announced her candidacy I thought she was brilliant. The imagery was wonderful. She looked like she was about to lead us into battle against the white walkers.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/...eri-225026