How would you react to finding out you were making out with a transsexual?

[Yonadav]

A reasonable person can anticipate that a normal man will be upset if he discovers the "girl" he's been hot and heavy with either had or still has a penis.  It's not really fair for that person to withhold that information, and then pretend to be surprised when things go really bad really fast upon discovery.

What about though if you know that the other person will never find out?

All you then is a sexual encounter that you both enjoy. Where's the harm in that?

If trans relationships were very common, or generally acceptable, then it wouldn't really be necessary to let a new romantic partner know your background.

Transsexuals may not be very common, but neither are all the other characteristics I mentioned that may turn people off. But there are so many of them to list in advance. Why should transsexuality be the one being singled out as the only one needing to be revealed?

By the way, putting "girl" in quotation marks like that is deeply insulting and invalidates and negates many people's core existence through no fault of their own. People who are already some of the most marginalised and disenfranchised in the population. I thought you might need to know what you are actually achieving by doing that in case you didn't realise. If you did know what you were doing, then I would personally be ashamed to be you. Do you reveal your bigoted spiteful nature to potential sexual partners in case it puts them off you?

Here's the thing. Naming a bunch of stuff that men don't feel violated by is obfuscation.  You are completely ignoring the fact that a very, very large number of men would feel violated. People like you piss me off. I've been dealing the trans rights and trans ethics for pretty much my entire life. For you, it's just an ostensibly liberal issue for you to posture with. For me, it's always been something where I have to take the feelings of other people very seriously.

A couple of posts back, you griped about this never being a trans-man issue. You know, as if your experience in some silly internet discussions is representative of the issue. I assure you that trans-men also have this issue of informed consent to contend with.

[Little lunch]

Putting 'girl' in quotation marks does not reveal a bigoted, spiteful nature in someone, in my opinion.
Then again, I can't remember disagreeing with anything that bennyboy has said in the past, so maybe I'm biased.
Or maybe I am also bigoted and spiteful in nature.
Actually, I surely am, but I fight hard against it. :-)

Tarajo, you were in an environment where you'd expect people to be more openminded, and the guy was, to a degree because he didn't abuse you. No harm done.
If I'd been in his place, I'd probably want to get to know you a little better before we kissed. ;-)

[I_am_not_mafia]

Here's the thing. Naming a bunch of stuff that men don't feel violated by is obfuscation.  You are completely ignoring the fact that a very, very large number of men would feel violated. People like you piss me off. I've been dealing the trans rights and trans ethics for pretty much my entire life.

How can a man feel violated if they never know and go away from the encounter feeling better for it?

You are not transsexual.

That's right. I'll say it again. You are not transsexual. I have not said that to anyone else and I never thought I ever would say that to someone.

Transgendered maybe to use its original umbrella term, but not using the old school definition of transsexual. No transsexual would ever go back. Ever. They would rather die than do that. And that is by no means an exaggeration or hyperbole. You do not have the right to talk about transsexuals as if you are one. You are appropriating and misrepresenting a shared trauma that you mistakenly thought applied to you but does not. A trauma so intense that causes over 40% of genuine transsexuals to attempt suicide.

So you've fucked up your life and are taking your bitterness out on the genuine transsexuals who just want to exist. Yet you call them date rapists for engaging in a consensual act that bring joy to both parties. Thereby insulting both trans-women by implying that they are not actually women, or are less than women. But also victims of genuine rape regardless of their gender by making light of the trauma that they have experienced.

You don't piss me off. I just pity you.

(OK yes, admittedly you do piss me off, but I still pity you more than you piss me off)

Maybe rather than take your bitterness out on other people you should learn to make peace with yourself first.

For you, it's just an ostensibly liberal issue for you to posture with.

Don't make assumptions.

A couple of posts back, you griped about this never being a trans-man issue. You know, as if your experience in some silly internet discussions is representative of the issue. I assure you that trans-men also have this issue of informed consent to contend with.

Trans-men have it rough as well and yes there are many, many shared experiences, but they don't come in for the same level of public scrutiny as trans-women. And yes I have spoken to many trans men.

In the same way although I may be caucasian but I am willing to accept that things are even worse for trans-women of colour. I do not make assumptions about their life experiences.

[Yonadav]

Here's the thing. Naming a bunch of stuff that men don't feel violated by is obfuscation.  You are completely ignoring the fact that a very, very large number of men would feel violated. People like you piss me off. I've been dealing the trans rights and trans ethics for pretty much my entire life.

How can a man feel violated if they never know and go away from the encounter feeling better for it?

You are not transsexual.

That's right. I'll say it again. You are not transsexual. I have not said that to anyone else and I never thought I ever would say that to someone.

Transgendered maybe to use its original umbrella term, but not using the old school definition of transsexual. No transsexual would ever go back. Ever. They would rather die than do that. And that is by no means an exaggeration or hyperbole. You do not have the right to talk about transsexuals as if you are one. You are appropriating and misrepresenting a shared trauma that you mistakenly thought applied to you but does not. A trauma so intense that causes over 40% of genuine transsexuals to attempt suicide.

So you've fucked up your life and are taking your bitterness out on the genuine transsexuals who just want to exist. Yet you call them date rapists for engaging in a consensual act that bring joy to both parties. Thereby insulting both trans-women by implying that they are not actually women, or are less than women. But also victims of genuine rape regardless of their gender by making light of the trauma that they have experienced.

You don't piss me off. I just pity you.

(OK yes, admittedly you do piss me off, but I still pity you more than you piss me off)

Maybe rather than take your bitterness out on other people you should learn to make peace with yourself first.

For you, it's just an ostensibly liberal issue for you to posture with.

Don't make assumptions.

A couple of posts back, you griped about this never being a trans-man issue. You know, as if your experience in some silly internet discussions is representative of the issue. I assure you that trans-men also have this issue of informed consent to contend with.

Trans-men have it rough as well and yes there are many, many shared experiences, but they don't come in for the same level of public scrutiny as trans-women. And yes I have spoken to many trans men.

In the same way although I may be caucasian but I am willing to accept that things are even worse for trans-women of colour. I do not make assumptions about their life experiences.

How idiotic. You are posturing.  And like all posers, you are now the grand authority on all things trans.

[I_am_not_mafia]

How idiotic. You are posturing.  And like all posers, you are now the grand authority on all things trans.

As I said, don't make assumptions.

[Yonadav]

How idiotic. You are posturing.  And like all posers, you are now the grand authority on all things trans.

As I said, don't make assumptions.

I didn't make any assumptions. You have been strenuously arguing that people don't have any right to informed consent. And now you are telling me that I'm not really a transsexual because I am not your kind of transsexual. I have been continuously active in trans rights for my entire life. I am sometimes referred to as a double transsexual because I was born male, am anatomically female, and live as a man. I have to deal with the issue of informed consent, just like any other transsexual.

You have made ridiculous assumptions about me, or you are just straight up telling lies. I'm bitter? No, I'm not. I am on record as not regretting having had surgery. I live as a man for reasons of my own. There are some other transsexuals who now live in the gender role of their birth. Among ourselves, we call it going full circle. We don't all have the same reasons for doing it. Few of us regret having done what we did.

I am active on trans rights. During my time with the Orthodox Jewish community, the community's understanding of trans rights and acceptance of trans people grew exponentially. I have several decades of experience with trans issues. People like you are not very helpful, because you just posture on one side of an issue that you perceive to be the liberal side of the issue, and you don't acknowledge the validity of other people's point of view. By doing that, you just piss people off and cause them to entrench, and create a blithering shitstorm of ignorance. And quite frankly, that's what you want to do, because these issues are just entertainment to you. The more entrenched people are, the more fun it is for you.

[I_am_not_mafia]

By doing that, you just piss people off and cause them to entrench, and create a blithering shitstorm of ignorance. And quite frankly, that's what you want to do, because these issues are just entertainment to you. The more entrenched people are, the more fun it is for you.

As I said. Don't make assumptions about me.

I don't know what you are. But I know what you are not.

[Yonadav]

By doing that, you just piss people off and cause them to entrench, and create a blithering shitstorm of ignorance. And quite frankly, that's what you want to do, because these issues are just entertainment to you. The more entrenched people are, the more fun it is for you.

As I said. Don't make assumptions about me.

I don't know what you are. But I know what you are not.

Project much?

[I_am_not_mafia]

During my time with the Orthodox Jewish community, the community's understanding of trans rights and acceptance of trans people grew exponentially

If you can't see how it is harmful to claim that post-op trans-women who have had sex with men without revealing their past are date-rapists, then you shouldn't be 'educating' people about trans-rights or what it means to be trans.

If you can't understand how it negates a person core identity and erodes their belief that they have a right to exist like any other person or to do the most basic of things, then you're probably doing more harm than good by trying to be a representative of transsexuals.

And yes I do recognise that I am doing the same to you by denying that you are transsexual.

Sucks doesn't it.

[Shell B]

Yona, feel free to tell me if this is none of my business, but you were born male, had a sex change and now live as male again, still perfectly happy with your altered genitalia?

I honestly don’t now how that’s not transgenderism. If he wasn’t transgender, that vagina would be a real problem.

Tarajo, I think you probably do the best you can all the time. I wouldn’t worry too much about our opinions, just your safety and health.