Active shooter in NZ

[The Grand Nudger]

Brian...gaurantee you that guy has killed fewer muslims than I have.  Think it over.

[Jackie]

Brian...gaurantee you that guy has killed fewer muslims than I have.  Think it over.

If you have served in combat, that is still not same thing.

Dont equate evolutionary competition as being the same as an individual. Saying humans go to war, is no different than saying different chimp groups will fight over territory. It is sad humans go to war. 

But that is not the same as say, finding a puppy who gets bitten by a raccoon as an adult dog who ends up with rabies and becomes violent.

The truth of reality most of the time, is that it is mundane. Conspiracy theorists love to claim the moon landing was faked. Other conspiracy theorists love to claim Oswald had help. 

Roof was a terrorist, but funny how when you look at disturbed people's pasts, you find economic and or relationship failures. The only difference between Roof and the Boston bomber is which hate group gave them a voice to blame everyone else for their own shortcomings. But both were disturbed enough mentally, both were also quite sane. 

I'd always argue the best way to reduce any type of violence, be it mentally ill, terrorist, domestic, workplace, is to have better economics, better mental health care, better wages. But those are never case by case solutions, but long term multi pronged issues.

[The Grand Nudger]

I wasn't trying to steal anybody's hut or their rack of ribs, man, lol.  

I'll just suggest, again, that people like this think that they -are- serving in combat.  It sounds weird, and that, in and of itself, may be nutball shit...but what they do on the back of that can be as lucid as anything that you or I have ever done.  It can be the only sane response to a cracked reality.   Honestly, that's what keeps people shooting in warzones, too.

If you want to directly address these incidents, mental health and economics and all that, while laudible, isn't really the way to go. You have to engage with the rhetoric that produced the mindset. A sane person can and will do things like this if they buy in. I'm telling you that from experience. You can look into anyone's past and find economic and relationship failures.

---

To put it another way, imagining that all of these people do things like this because they're crazy is, as another poster put it, lazy.  They do this because we've mainstreamed a message that predictably yields these behaviors. Addressing it as an economic issue is just another version of "economic anxiety"...as though, if they had more money, they wouldn't do it.

I think they'd just buy better gear and more ammo.

[Jackie]

I wasn't trying to steal anybody's hut or their rack of ribs, man, lol.  

I'll just suggest, again, that people like this think that they -are- serving in combat.  It sounds weird, and that, in and of itself, may be nutball shit...but what they do on the back of that can be as lucid as anything that you or I have ever done.  It can be the only sane response to a cracked reality.   Honestly, that's what keeps people shooting in warzones, too.

If you want to directly address these incidents, mental health and economics and all that, while laudible, isn't really the way to go.  You have to engage with the rhetoric that produced the mindset.  A sane person can and will do things like this if they buy in.  I'm telling you that from experience.  You can look into anyone's past and find economic and relationship failures.

They may see themselves as a hero, but what I am saying is that is just them most of the time ignoring or covering up their own failures. White nationalists and those who join Isis, are not the same guys who landed on the beaches of Normandy. 

I can say about myself when I was a teen and a young adult, I got angry at the world. And the truth is even after I got rid of my rage, I still never had anything but minimum wage jobs my entire life. There would have been a time if the wrong person, had sold me on a "movement" I also could have seen myself as being in "combat". So today, while I didn't go up the economic ladder, and while I never had any long term relationship with women, I know now that I don't have to look myself as a failure just because I didn't meet other's metrics, nor do I feel the need to belong to something now.

I feel lucky I didn't get suckered into the wrong group. I also feel lucky that I know now that being single isn't the worst thing in the world. I also feel lucky that losing a job also isn't the worst thing in the world. 

But I do know how desperate I was back then in wanting to fit in and belong.

[The Grand Nudger]

They may see themselves as a hero, but what I am saying is that is just them most of the time ignoring or covering up their own failures. White nationalists and those who join Isis, are not the same guys who landed on the beaches of Normandy. 

I think that you'd be surprised.   The notion that any of these people are so very much unlike "the rest of us" is wrong, and it helps to perpetuate the misery.

I can say about myself when I was a teen and a young adult, I got angry at the world. And the truth is even after I got rid of my rage, I still never had anything but minimum wage jobs my entire life. There would have been a time if the wrong person, had sold me on a "movement" I also could have seen myself as being in "combat". So today, while I didn't go up the economic ladder, and while I never had any long term relationship with women, I know now that I don't have to look myself as a failure just because I didn't meet other's metrics, nor do I feel the need to belong to something now.

I feel lucky I didn't get suckered into the wrong group. I also feel lucky that I know now that being single isn't the worst thing in the world. I also feel lucky that losing a job also isn't the worst thing in the world. 

But I do know how desperate I was back then in wanting to fit in and belong.

One thing that's common to alot of these movements is that they target younger males outside of meaningful relationships, for sure.

[Jackie]

That is what I am hearing on cable news.

Which outlet?  I'd appreciate a link if you have one. I've been following this all night and haven't heard that.

The guy also had a long rambling manifesto.

Eighty seven pages isn't all that long for a manifesto, you can write that much in an afternoon.  How do you know it was 'rambling', or are you just using another word when you don't know what it means?

And the sicko had a body came and went live on social media while doing it. That takes planning. 

Maybe an hour, hour and a half. You can pick up a gopro camera almost anywhere.  A live stream takes less than a minute to establish.

 I'd still like to know where you got the info that this was planned for months in advance.

Boru

This is still planning. How does an hour or a month make a difference?

Insanity is when you think ABBA is broadcasting through your stove and Martians made Elvis the head of Isis and vampires milk cows for the communists. FYI, ABBA does not broadcast through my stove. I know for a fact it is my tooth paste. <--- Sarcasm. 

This guy was not insane. Mentally ill, yes, but not insane.Taking the time to put that on, and writing a manifesto over time, does not indicate that he thought that his dog was talking to him telling him to go on a murder spree. This guy had failures in his past, maybe even abusive relationships and was merely looking for a group that could justify taking it out on others.

[WinterHold]

[The Grand Nudger]

He thought that "the west is witnessing a new Muslim expansion via immigration"; aka an invasion, war:

The jews muslims will not replace us!

His weapons were decorated with anti-Muslim writings; the man was a racist, xenophobic bitch who thought that he's a European crusader living in the 1400s.
I bet he had a knight fetish.

This is a sane asshole. This is an extreme rightist, we know another copy from him in America's White House right now with a name ends with Trump.

This totally sane, racist garbage and his likes were even anticipated in the various reports in the past years about the scary rise of the right wing.

Apparently, he was smitten with the orange overlord.   Imagine that, lol.

[Jackie]

[Yonadav]

Leave it to the usual suspects to make this all about Trump. Trump really wishes that he was as influential as these guys keep insisting that he is.

The world is currently experiencing the most massive migrations of human beings that has happened in quite some time. But that couldn't possibly have anything to do with it. Fear of mass migration isn't hardwired into people, right? History teaches us that no one has ever had anything to fear from mass migration, right? Obviously, everyone would be grabbing immigrants by the arm and pulling them into their homes and serving them cookies and ice cream, if only it weren't for that super influential Donald Trump. Damn you Donald! You ruined our warm and fuzzy relationship with mass migration!