Didn't Nero launch Christianity?

[Amarok]

Okay so the early Christians pre gospels, and Paul believed Jesus was crucified, just not in the real world? But some spiritual/supernatural realm? Based on your reading of Paul’s references to Christ?

And later Christians, including the gospel writers didn’t like the idea of this Jesus, so they decided to transform him into a historical person, who was crucified under the rule of Pilate.

And they almost got away with it, if it wasn’t for some pesky atheists on the internet 2000 years later.

Exposing the mother of all conspiracy theories.

Hey, that's how it is with all gods. What can you do. Ce la vie.

Love how he think credulity and snark refute the non historical Jesus and the wholly plausible idea the historical Jesus was a later invention . But the standard for historicists they can't offer a good reason to believe in a historical Jesus they can only appeal to "but someone would noticed "

[The Grand Nudger]

People did notice it was mythological horseshit, but the claim, divorced from the supernatural elements, is so mundane it doesn't really garner much more than derision from authors in antiquity.  "Ah, so you worship some rando no one knows who got crucified?  Good for you".

The only reason we know this is that later christian apologists kept the skeptics comments because they thought they had a brilliant response.

[vulcanlogician]

People did notice it was mythological horseshit, but the claim, divorced from the supernatural elements, is so mundane it doesn't really garner much more than derision from authors in antiquity.  "Ah, so you worship some rando no one knows who got crucified?  Good for you".

The only reason we know this is that later christian apologists kept the skeptics comments because they thought they had a brilliant response.

Bah! The early Christian church was never a huge concern of mine. Sure, tons of wrong ideas. Tons of misconceptions. But (all things considered... this was the time they proved they could take it as the underdog.)

But when they got power... then the real atrocities started. You don't believe in our Christ? We'll burn you at the stake! This is how things were handled for centuries... until we MADE them stop.

For all the clamoring they do, it's hard to see a Christian occupying any moral high ground.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sure, ultimately, the development of the proto christian faith is moot point today - but if you're into the sort of stuff..or you're a believer who has strange ideas about how this all happened (like acro, for example..or pretty much any average christer), it's worth knowing.

They certainly had the high ground when they were handing out cake. The truth on this is better than the fiction, really. Huge demos of the pop had suffered under official abandonment. The early faith filled that void - or, you know..magic man, martyrs, lions and tigers and bears. One set of things is silly fiction, the other is a legitimate and admirable cause and reason for growth. Christianity really did start out as a force for good - which makes it's current state all the more perplexing.

[vulcanlogician]

Sure, ultimately, the development of the proto christian faith is moot point today - but if you're into the sort of stuff..or you're a believer who has strange ideas about how this all happened (like acro, for example..or pretty much any average christer), it's worth knowing.

They certainly had the high ground when they were handing out cake.  The truth on this is better than the fiction, really. Huge demos of the pop had suffered under official abandonment.  The early faith filled that void - or, you know..magic man, martyrs, lions and tigers and bears.  One set of things is silly fiction, the other is a legitimate and admirable cause and reason for growth.

I may or may not know my history. But is it not true that they were a religious minority at one point? It's a matter of documentation... How we interpret that documentation today is a matter of interpretation.

[Acrobat]

Nor is it evident that Christians exploited any such sympathies. Also, the virtue of being martyr didn’t originate later in the Christian movement, but a part of its very beginning, with the very idea of a crucified messiah.

The earliest christian teachings didn't even have a corporeal god, never mind a one who faked his own death for three days to get off work.

And you derived this from what earliest Christian teachings?

Let me guess the Epistles? Because you’ve actually read all them, and understand them well, to infer this?

The same Paul who indicates Jesus was born of the flesh, had a mother, died by earthy rulers, whose brother and disciples he met are argued with?

Do you not see why this sort of nonsense sounds like the stuff you hear from conspiracy theorist, like moon landing deniers, flat earthers, etc...?

[The Valkyrie]

Well, we know Nero was a bastard.

So it seems prudent to blame him for inflicting this cult on us.

[Fake Messiah]

The same Paul who indicates Jesus was born of the flesh, had a mother, died by earthy rulers, whose brother and disciples he met are argued with?

Actually Paul constantly claimed that he has received his knowledge directly from Jesus. Meaning no apostles and no actual Jesus, no oral tradition, that it all came down from heaven direct to his ear, either via another vision of his Christ or the Lord God himself; like

Galatians 1:11-12   I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:15-16  But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being.

Do you not see why this sort of nonsense sounds like the stuff you hear from conspiracy theorist, like moon landing deniers, flat earthers, etc...?

Nah, more like Hercules deniers, Krishna deniers and Thor deniers.

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Well, we know Nero was a bastard.

So it seems prudent to blame him for inflicting this cult on us.

It seems it wasn't Nero but some of the later Caesars for even Christians themselves admit it. This is from Christian persecution page on wikipedia:

These persecutions heavily influenced the development of Christianity, shaping Christian theology and the structure of the Church.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecut...man_Empire

[Acrobat]

Actually Paul constantly claimed that he has received his knowledge directly from Jesus. Meaning no apostles and no actual Jesus, no oral tradition, that it all came down from heaven direct to his ear, either via another vision of his Christ or the Lord God himself; like

Well, Jesus was already dead when Paul converted, so clearly he never spoke to the historical Jesus. But it’s clear in Paul’s writing that the he viewed Jesus’s as a real historical person, born of the flesh, with an earthly mother, killed by earthly rulers. He even met and interacted with his disciples and brother.

So your suggestion that Paul didn’t believe in a historical Jesus is just plain stupid. I doubt you’ve even read the epistles, and just parroting nonsense you picked up from others.

[The Grand Nudger]

I may or may not know my history. But is it not true that they were a religious minority at one point? It's a matter of documentation... How we interpret that documentation today is a matter of interpretation.

Not in the context of roman society, no.  We think of things like religious minorities (and all that this entails) through the lens of later monotheistic cultural dominance and persecution.   Pagan rome absorbed and validated the religions it came into contact with to maintain social order and as an effective platform for taxation.  The roman empires faith was a massive collection of "religious minorities", all of which operated under the umbrella of secular authority.  Priesthood was a public office.  A roman temple would contain effigies to faiths from all over their reach.  They even contained statues of "jesus", lol.