Didn't Nero launch Christianity?

[Fake Messiah]

Really, where would christianity be without Nero?
Back in the ancient Rome pagans found Christians to be as irritating as people today consider scientologists to be irritating, but once Nero started persecuting Christians for burning Rome (whether they really started the fire or not) pagans started feeling sorry for them and, needless to say, Christians exploited it beyond any measure creating whole culture of a "persecuted Christian" with myriads of invented martyr saints and other myths like catacombs where Christians would go down to worship during periods of persecution. Which still goes on in the minds of many Christians even today - they feel persecuted by communists, Jews, muslims, atheists, aliens, scientists - you name it.

So if there wasn't that period where Christians were persecuted pagans wouldn't feel that allure of forbidden religion do you think that christianity would just die long time ago?

[downbeatplumb]

Really, where would christianity be without Nero?
Back in the ancient Rome pagans found Christians to be as irritating as people today consider scientologists to be irritating, but once Nero started persecuting Christians for burning Rome (whether they really started the fire or not) pagans started feeling sorry for them and, needless to say, Christians exploited it beyond any measure creating whole culture of a "persecuted Christian" with myriads of invented martyr saints and other myths like catacombs where Christians would go down to worship during periods of persecution. Which still goes on in the minds of many Christians even today - they feel persecuted by communists, Jews, muslims, atheists, aliens, scientists - you name it.

So if there wasn't that period where Christians were persecuted pagans wouldn't feel that allure of forbidden religion do you think that christianity would just die long time ago?

The Christians are also the number one suspects for the burning of Rome. They are and were an end times cult and burning Rome would have "brought back" their fictional hero.

[Acrobat]

Really, where would christianity be without Nero?
Back in the ancient Rome pagans found Christians to be as irritating as people today consider scientologists to be irritating, but once Nero started persecuting Christians for burning Rome (whether they really started the fire or not) pagans started feeling sorry for them and, needless to say, Christians exploited it beyond any measure creating whole culture of a "persecuted Christian" with myriads of invented martyr saints and other myths like catacombs where Christians would go down to worship during periods of persecution. Which still goes on in the minds of many Christians even today - they feel persecuted by communists, Jews, muslims, atheists, aliens, scientists - you name it.

So if there wasn't that period where Christians were persecuted pagans wouldn't feel that allure of forbidden religion do you think that christianity would just die long time ago?

Christians exploited supposed pagan sympathies for their persecution?

I don’t think the larger society was all that sympathetic.

Nor is it evident that Christians exploited any such sympathies. Also, the virtue of being martyr didn’t originate later in the Christian movement, but a part of its very beginning, with the very idea of a crucified messiah.

[Mister Agenda]

Revelations would have certainly been a different kettle of fish without Nero.

[Acrobat]

I also think it’s not sympathy for the suffering of Christians that appealed to the pagans, but it’s defiance. It’s willingness to defy political and social order, even it meant death.

Marty stories almost always highlight the courage and defiance of the martyrs death, dying not as some distraught victim, but as emblems of courage, as heroic in the face of it.

For the poor and disenfranchised, those who felt powerless among the powers that be, it shouldn’t be surprising why such a religion would appeal to them.

[The Grand Nudger]

Christianity appealed to pagan romans because they were poor and starving, and the christians were handing out cake. They were also suffering through a rising crescendo of epidemics, and alot of movements that posited a resurrection of the dead gained traction at the time.

The last pagan emperor of rome very handily identified this, and knew that the failure of the state to provide for the least among them was the main contributor to the rise of a parasitic religious order. He tried to turn things around..but it was too little, too late, and he was assassinated. His successor rose to power by demolishing the apparatus loyal to the previous regimes, the state cult, and appealing to a growing body of the populous in christians and more specifically their religious leaders who had long sought access to roman authority (a privilege they had once possessed but had lost in the interim) .

Nero may not have pinned the great fire on christians, most of what we know about nero comes from openly hostile biographers in later regimes and there is no corroboration of this incident, but supposing that he did..no, as far as emperors go, he didn;t do much if anything to help advance the christian cause.

Acro..christian matrydom is a myth, the majority of people ever "charged" with christianity recanted and made offerings at the temple. Magic book and later christian propagandists tell a story entirely different from the reality of christianities development or interaction with power. The reality of this is better compared to politics today than the story of the piously defiant and suffering martyrs to the cause. Ironically, the martyrdom myth was sold to christians in an era when christianity had uncontested power. As ever, the true origins of the faith were embarrassing to christians....which is perplexing, considering how upfront they were to begin with. The reason that we know, for example....how christianity grew it;s numbers in rome before it could wield the power of the state (to persecute other christians, lol)..is that this and many other accusations were laid at the feet of early evangelists, and they just flat out said "Yeah, you caught us, we're doing that...someone has to...."

[Fake Messiah]

Also, the virtue of being martyr didn’t originate later in the Christian movement, but a part of its very beginning, with the very idea of a crucified messiah.

Or the story of a crucified messiah was embellished for the purpose of martyrdom religion, considering that earliest gospel was written after Nero's persecution declaration. Not to mention that the earliest manuscript of Mark dates to 4th century (Codex Vaticanus) so who knows what kind of versions it went through.

[Acrobat]

Also, the virtue of being martyr didn’t originate later in the Christian movement, but a part of its very beginning, with the very idea of a crucified messiah.

Or the story of a crucified messiah was embellished for the purpose of martyrdom religion, considering that earliest gospel was written after Nero's persecution declaration. Not to mention that the earliest manuscript of Mark dates to 4th century (Codex Vaticanus) so who knows what kind of versions it went through.

No, the gospels are all dated prior to Nero, not to mention the rest the of NT, Paul's writing etc, which all confirm the crucifixion. It's stretches  all credulity to imagine all these texts were revised in such a way to include a crucifixion, leaving hardly a trace of such editing, or some evidence of earlier manuscripts absent of this, early sects who believe he died some other way, rumors of it, etc......

Not to mention the crucifixion was unexpected and unfortunate demise for the messiah, not a part of anyone exceptions of the messiahs fate, hardly the sort of thing someone would have made up for a messiah.

---

Christianity appealed to pagan romans because they were poor and starving, and the christians were handing out cake.  They were also suffering through a rising crescendo of epidemics, and alot of movements that posited a resurrection of the dead gained traction at the time.

Ah perhaps, atheists and humanist should start handing out cake to win over poor religious folks, lol.

In reality people are more motivated towards a particular religion, or worldview, or particular sort of life, and community, by its models, and heroes, than anything else. The more kids want to be like Carl Sagan, Neil Tyson, or some other atheistic scientist, or etc... the more likely they'd be drawn to atheism. Malcolm X likely contributed more to the rise of black American muslims, then anyone or anything else.

Atheists are better off expanding the diversity of its model and heroes, than handing out free cake to believers.

[Fake Messiah]

Yeah it seems that Nero's persecution of Christians is just another historical hoax that never happened, nor did Christians exist at that time especially in Rome.

 It's stretches  all credulity to imagine all these texts were revised in such a way to include a crucifixion, leaving hardly a trace of such editing, or some evidence of earlier manuscripts absent of this, early sects who believe he died some other way, rumors of it, etc......

It doesn't stretch anything because there were many versions of Jesus before that council happened when Christian leaders decided what kind of version of Jesus they wanted and burned over hundred books which described different Jesus.

Like for instance the late 2nd-century church father Irenaeus said that many Christians thought Jesus lived to an old age before being crucified. He also wrote that all the presbyters in Asia Minor testify that Jesus lived to old age as well.

Or consider the writing of Justin Martyr, a second-century apologist who mentioned some quite strange gospel that obviously didn't survive to today:
"And when they tell that Hercules was strong, and travelled travelled over all the world, and was begotten by Jove of Alcmene, and ascended to heaven when he died, do I not perceive that the Scripture which speaks of Christ, 'strong as a giant to run his race, has been in like manner imitated?"

[The Grand Nudger]

Ah perhaps, atheists and humanist should start handing out cake to win over poor religious folks, lol.

Like a social safety net and the 50 or so billion in foreign aid, you mean?  We also hand your parasitic churches billions every year to keep the lights on so that they can miseducate children.  

Secular authority finds itself in the same predicament that the roman empire did.  Christianity is suckling the tit as a free rider while simultaneously eroding civic commitment, good governance, and the necessity of a well educated populace.

I get a kick out of posting Julian Apostate's comments on the fledgling religion and people read through them thinking it's a contemporary criticism of christianity in america.