Is blackface always offensive?

[Amarok]

The motivation argument fails do to the simple fact of why anyone would want to use it ironically in the first place ...

[paulpablo]

The motivation argument fails do to the simple fact of why anyone would want to use it ironically in the first place ...

In the case of Peep Show they used it to be funny.

[Amarok]

The motivation argument fails do to the simple fact of why anyone would want to use it ironically in the first place ...

In the case of Peep Show they used it to be funny.

Which is aside the fact

[Rev. Rye]

The motivation argument fails do to the simple fact of why anyone would want to use it ironically in the first place ...

In the case of Peep Show they used it to be funny.

Of course, there's yet another recent British series who managed to make an iconic moment out of blackface.



Why did Papa Lazarou get a pass? Well, I think a good part of it is because, simply put, despite the blackface, he's clearly not supposed to represent blackness in any way. He's got a Greek name, and everything about him screams more The Penguin than grotesque parody of blackness. As a matter of fact, the blackface, white-painted mouth and all, are apparently supposed to be his actual skin colour. Why use it, then? Because The League of Gentlemen, in addition to comedy, strove to create some of the most horrifying things on TV. Indeed, Papa Lazarou is actually the page image on TVTRopes' "Nightmare Fuel/Live Action TV" page. And the racial uncomfortableness surrounding the whole phoenomenon of blackface just adds to the creepiness.

Why do it ironically? Honestly, I think the fact that it's so frowned upon (and not because it's been done to death, but because it still gets a rise out of people) manages to keep the mystique alive for the edgier comedians out there. Create a taboo, expect loads of people to try ad break that taboo just for the sake of it. What's that? You expect the forces of basic human decency to keep shit like that in check? In an art form that hinges on taking unfortunate situations and draining them of their negative emotions?

[outtathereligioncloset]

I guess it's been maybe ten years ago or so, we went to a swing dance Halloween costume party. The costume contest was about midway through the dance. So there is a guy there (one of the youngish, attractive regulars there) dressed in a long white linen Nehru jacket and pants. And a VERY nice turban. He was white but had applied brown makeup to his face, neck, hands.

For hours before the costume judging people tried to guess who/what he was. Many thought he would pull out a flute and sit down cross legged in front of a basket of fake snakes. Others guessed Hadji from the old Jonny Quest cartoon.

Finally the judging began and the DJ went around the room with a microphone and asked people "who are you?" even when it seemed obvious. Got to him and in a PERFECT Indian accent he said "I am Rajesh, your help desk operator..."

People FELL on the floor laughing, myself included. I honestly don't think there was one single person there who cried racism or was at all offended by it, including the "brown face" makeup. He absolutely nailed it.

Honestly, is there anybody here who has never spoken to Rajesh, your help desk operator? I know I have.

[Homeless Nutter]

[Aegon]

In a thread supposedly concerned with offending people, I find it extremely hypocritical that some people consider it fine to be as offensive, judgmental and arrogant as they like, as long as it’s directed towards someone who the in-group consider to hold a "wrong" opinion.

Really disappointing. I’ve noticed this going on in other threads too. Just insult people so that the wrong opinions either go away or submit to attacks from groupthink. The insults don’t count because they are righteous. I was recently driven away from another forum in exactly the same way.

I’m not going to bother to elaborate on what I actually meant, as people seem quite happy to just make up stories about me and put me in neat little boxes.

I don't think I personally insulted you in my response. Would you disagree? I might've went on a slight tirade, but it was the part of me that's been so sick of white guys saying stuff like that coming out. I actually think my opinion on the matter is somewhat moderate -- relatively speaking, of course.

I also have no problem with being wrong or being challenged. I'm also okay with being called arrogant or offensive as long as I'm told exactly how and why. At the end of the day, I want the person I'm talking to to have a solid understanding of my POV, because I intend to sway you in my direction. Obviously I can do better, and with some emotionally charged issues it can be difficult to do that.

And whether my opinion on something is the same as the group's is largely irrelevant, I believe what I want based on my own standard of truth and evidence and sometimes it aligns with other's, sometimes it doesn't.

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I don’t exactly know what’s going on here. I think people are reading a lot more into my words than I’ve actually said. I’ll be hitting the old dusty trail.

Your post had an incredibly wide scope, despite the very specific topic of blackface. Also, generally speaking, if everybody responds to your post in a certain fashion that you deem to be a misunderstanding, it's most likely your own fault for the way in which you worded it. That goes for every person, including me.

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[robvalue]

[Losty]

Blackface has no place as a part of the tradition. If they’re incapable of seeing this and doing the dance without blackface then yea they’re ignorant fuckheads. Blackface is always racist, those who do it are not always racists. Some people are innocently ignorant. It’s when you’ve been informed and instead of changing you double down and insist on doing something that’s unacceptable, that’s when you go from being an innocent ignorant to a douchebag.

[Amarok]

Tons awful shit has been has been labelled " cultural heritage " just like all manor of other shit has been called "religious values " simply calling it that does not determine it's content or context .

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Blackface has no place as a part of the tradition. If they’re incapable of seeing this and doing the dance without blackface then yea they’re ignorant fuckheads. Blackface is always racist, those who do it are not always racists. Some people are innocently ignorant. It’s when you’ve been informed and instead of changing you double down and insist on doing something that’s unacceptable, that’s when you go from being an innocent ignorant to a douchebag.

And even if it were part o0f the tradition that doesn't make it okay . Something is not excused because it is a tradition .