This time Virginia Beach 11 more

[no one]

I like persons, I FUCKING hate people!

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Well, since the party that controls two-and-a-half of the three branches of the government has made abundantly clear that they have no interest in stopping the tide of mass shootings, I’d like to share a solution I recently read about that could potentially help in an active shooter situation:

Instead of arming teachers, keep fire extinguishers in every classroom.

“An everyday 5-pound dry powder fire extinguisher will shoot a high-speed stream of attacker slowing or stopping (depending on how close) thick powder for 12-20 feet that will cover an area many times larger than pepper spray and you need not be a good shot as with a firearm that could send misses through classroom walls.”

“The effect is it can flat out stop an attacker as he tries to clean his face and clear breathing of a massive contamination of powder and the diversion may help force him to change his murderous plans and maybe give defenders the time and opportunity to attack him. And there is nearly no if any collateral harm to people or damage to the building.”

“School administrators and staff must actively plan for and aggressively defend the children in their charge and the fire extinguisher and some simple old fashion barricading can help.”

Note: in addition to being under pressure, the contents of said extinguishers are damn cold, and potentially harmful (this may seem inhumane, but bear in mind that most school shooters off themselves anyway.) And if the shooter isn’t knocked out by such a thing, well, it can be used as a club to finish the deed.

Why, yes, it does suck that we have to resort to schemes like this and aren’t actually allowed to use gun control to stop it at the root. But this is the world we live in.

The problem with the "good guy with a gun" scenario is good guys don't do John Wick-level prep. If they fire at all* they may not be aiming, just hoping to get a shot off to deter the shooter, something that hasn't been proven effective.

As for fire extinguishers:

1. Realize there's an incident happening.
2. Locate fire extinguisher.
3. Dismount it from wall hook.
4. Find safety pin.
5. Pull safety pin.
6. Locate shooter.
7. Aim nozzle at shooter.
8. Fire extinguisher.
9. Hope.

Meanwhile, shooter, realizing there is a threat and already operating his weapon, shoots person with extinguisher.

*There have been instances of rent-a-cops not engaging shooters in the last year.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Well, since the party that controls two-and-a-half of the three branches of the government has made abundantly clear that they have no interest in stopping the tide of mass shootings, I’d like to share a solution I recently read about that could potentially help in an active shooter situation:

Instead of arming teachers, keep fire extinguishers in every classroom.

“An everyday 5-pound dry powder fire extinguisher will shoot a high-speed stream of attacker slowing or stopping (depending on how close) thick powder for 12-20 feet that will cover an area many times larger than pepper spray and you need not be a good shot as with a firearm that could send misses through classroom walls.”

“The effect is it can flat out stop an attacker as he tries to clean his face and clear breathing of a massive contamination of powder and the diversion may help force him to change his murderous plans and maybe give defenders the time and opportunity to attack him. And there is nearly no if any collateral harm to people or damage to the building.”

“School administrators and staff must actively plan for and aggressively defend the children in their charge and the fire extinguisher and some simple old fashion barricading can help.”

Note: in addition to being under pressure, the contents of said extinguishers are damn cold, and potentially harmful (this may seem inhumane, but bear in mind that most school shooters off themselves anyway.) And if the shooter isn’t knocked out by such a thing, well, it can be used as a club to finish the deed.

Why, yes, it does suck that we have to resort to schemes like this and aren’t actually allowed to use gun control to stop it at the root. But this is the world we live in.

The problem with the "good guy with a gun" scenario is good guys don't do John Wick-level prep. If they fire at all* they may not be aiming, just hoping to get a shot off to deter the shooter, something that hasn't been proven effective.

As for fire extinguishers:

1. Realize there's an incident happening.
2. Locate fire extinguisher.
3. Dismount it from wall hook.
4. Find safety pin.
5. Pull safety pin.
6. Locate shooter.
7. Aim nozzle at shooter.
8. Fire extinguisher.
9. Hope.

Meanwhile, shooter, realizing there is a threat and already operating his weapon, shoots person with extinguisher.

*There have been instances of rent-a-cops not engaging shooters in the last year.

I'm given to understand - and it may or may not be true - that in a fire fight-type situation involving trained soldiers, only 30-40% of the armed people involved actually shoot, the rest freeze up.  If this is the case, I shudder to think how much worse it would be if we were relying on lightly-trained educators to do this job.

Boru

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I'm given to understand - and it may or may not be true - that in a fire fight-type situation involving trained soldiers, only 30-40% of the armed people involved actually shoot, the rest freeze up. 

Not true.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I'm given to understand - and it may or may not be true - that in a fire fight-type situation involving trained soldiers, only 30-40% of the armed people involved actually shoot, the rest freeze up. 

Not true.

Good-o.

Boru

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Not true.

Good-o.

Boru

The original was "only one in ten soldiers fired their weapons in combat." That was ... interpreted ... from the fact that 90% of US active duty personnel in WWII actually made contact with the enemy. Among those anyone who didn't fight was noted and ... dealt with.

Given the above it is hard to get normal people to kill each other in any scale. Much of infantry training is (or was, anyway) done with the goal of getting men used to the idea of fighting for their lives. Even back in the days of long lines of men facing each other and blindly firing off their smooth-bore muskets* training was aimed at making the men more afraid of their sargeant than the enemy.

*There was no "aim" in musket drill, it was pretty much pointless. The command was "level", then "fire". A musket ball pretty much bounces down the barrel and can egress with any trajectory.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Very informative.  Thank you.

Boru

[Gawdzilla Sama]

There's also the story that it took a million rounds to kill one soldier in WWII. Kinda true. Some fun numbers:

One B-17 had 13 .50 cal. MGs. They fired between 750 and 850 rounds a minute (rpm). That's 10,050 rounds a minute from one plane. For a "thousand plane raid" add three zeros. 10,050,000 rpm. During that minute they may or may not kill a Luftwaffe pilot.

[Rev. Rye]

Well, since the party that controls two-and-a-half of the three branches of the government has made abundantly clear that they have no interest in stopping the tide of mass shootings, I’d like to share a solution I recently read about that could potentially help in an active shooter situation:

Instead of arming teachers, keep fire extinguishers in every classroom.

“An everyday 5-pound dry powder fire extinguisher will shoot a high-speed stream of attacker slowing or stopping (depending on how close) thick powder for 12-20 feet that will cover an area many times larger than pepper spray and you need not be a good shot as with a firearm that could send misses through classroom walls.”

“The effect is it can flat out stop an attacker as he tries to clean his face and clear breathing of a massive contamination of powder and the diversion may help force him to change his murderous plans and maybe give defenders the time and opportunity to attack him. And there is nearly no if any collateral harm to people or damage to the building.”

“School administrators and staff must actively plan for and aggressively defend the children in their charge and the fire extinguisher and some simple old fashion barricading can help.”

Note: in addition to being under pressure, the contents of said extinguishers are damn cold, and potentially harmful (this may seem inhumane, but bear in mind that most school shooters off themselves anyway.) And if the shooter isn’t knocked out by such a thing, well, it can be used as a club to finish the deed.

Why, yes, it does suck that we have to resort to schemes like this and aren’t actually allowed to use gun control to stop it at the root. But this is the world we live in.

The problem with the "good guy with a gun" scenario is good guys don't do John Wick-level prep. If they fire at all* they may not be aiming, just hoping to get a shot off to deter the shooter, something that hasn't been proven effective.

As for fire extinguishers:

1. Realize there's an incident happening.
2. Locate fire extinguisher.
3. Dismount it from wall hook.
4. Find safety pin.
5. Pull safety pin.
6. Locate shooter.
7. Aim nozzle at shooter.
8. Fire extinguisher.
9. Hope.

Meanwhile, shooter, realizing there is a threat and already operating his weapon, shoots person with extinguisher.

*There have been instances of rent-a-cops not engaging shooters in the last year.

Good point. That said, I think a good part of how that worked also hinged on using the door for a choke hold. Getting the shooter in that position may be more difficult than I thought at first.

[onlinebiker]

The only thing I have heard that is stupider than trying to take on somebody with a fire extinguisher who is shooting at you with a gun --- was the blubberhead who advocated using a book as a shield.