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Islam slave trade
#1
Islam slave trade
OK it seems I or we started this topic in chat box, so I might as well open the new topic since.

We already mentioned this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

Quote:The Arab slave trade, across the Sahara desert and across the Indian Ocean, began after Muslim Arab and Swahili traders won control of the Swahili Coast and sea routes during the 9th century

Then there's also a book by Bernard Lewis called "Race and Slavery in the Middle East: An Historical Enquiry" and the summary goes:

Quote:The Quran prescribes  that free men could not be enslaved, and those faithful to foreign religions could live as protected persons, dhimmis, under Muslim rule (as long as they maintained payment of taxes called Kharaj and Jizya). However, the spread of the Islamic Empire resulted in a much harsher interpretation of the law. For example, if a dhimmi was unable to pay the taxes they could be enslaved, and people from outside the borders of the Islamic Empire were considered an acceptable source of slaves.

Although the law required owners to treat slaves well and provide medical treatment, a slave had no right to be heard in court (testimony was forbidden by slaves), had no right to property, could marry only with permission of their owner, and was considered to be a chattel, that is the (moveable) property, of the slave owner. Conversion to Islam did not automatically give a slave freedom nor did it confer freedom to their children. Whilst highly educated slaves and those in the military did win their freedom, those used for basic duties rarely achieved freedom. In addition, the recorded mortality rate was high -- this was still significant even as late as the nineteenth century and was remarked upon by western travelers in North Africa and Egypt.

Slaves were obtained through conquest, tribute from vassal states, offspring (children of slaves were also slaves, but since many slaves were castrated this was not as common as it had been in the Roman empire), and purchase. The latter method provided the majority of slaves, and at the borders of the Islamic Empire vast number of new slaves were castrated ready for sale. The majority of these slaves came from Europe and Africa -- there were always enterprising locals ready to kidnap or capture their fellow countrymen.

Black Africans were transported to the Islamic empire across the Sahara to Morocco and Tunisia from West Africa, from Chad to Libya, along the Nile from East Africa, and up the coast of East Africa to the Persian Gulf. This trade had been well entrenched for over 600 years before Europeans arrived, and had driven the rapid expansion of Islam across North Africa.

By the time of the Ottoman Empire, the majority of slaves were obtained by raiding in Africa. Russian expansion had put an end to the source of "exceptionally beautiful" female and "brave" male slaves from the Caucasians -- the women were highly prized in the harem, the men in the military. The great trade networks across North Africa were as much to do with the safe transportation of slaves as other goods. An analysis of prices at various slave markets shows that eunuchs fetched higher prices than other males, encouraging the castration of slaves before export.

Documentation suggests that slaves throughout Islamic world were mainly used for menial domestic and commercial purposes. Eunuchs were especially prized for bodyguards and confidential servants; women as concubines and menials. A Muslim slave owner was entitled by law to use slaves for sexual pleasure.
https://www.thoughtco.com/the-role-of-is...very-44532

Then about some later times of Islamic slave trade that goes all to the 19th century from a different article

Quote:Figures on the Arab slave trade in Africa are hard to come by, but the historian Paul Lovejoy estimates that some 9.85 million Africans were shipped out as slaves to Arabia and, in small numbers, to the Indian subcontinent. Lovejoy breaks his figures down as follows:

Between AD 650 and 1600, an average of 5,000 Africans were shipped out by the Arabs. This makes a rough total of 7.25 million.

Then, between 1600 and 1800, another 1.4 million Africans were shipped out by the Arabs. The 19th century represented the highest point of the Arabian trade where 12,000 Africans were shipped out every year. The total figure for the 19th century alone was 1.2 million slaves to Arabia.

[...]

Through out the 19th century, the Omani Arab rulers of Zanzibar shipped hundreds of thousands of African slaves to work on clove plantations on the island. It was this trade that gave Europe and America so much satisfaction, after abolishing their own trade in African slaves, to highlight the wickedness of the Arab slavers who continued to enslave Africans well into the first decades of the 20th century. Even to this day, Arab slavers are still at work in Sudan and Mauritania, buying and selling black Africans.

David Livingstone, the British missionary/traveller/explorer was so upset by the way the Arabs treated their African slaves that he wrote back home in 1870:

“In less than I take to talk about it, these unfortunate creatures — 84 of them, wended their way into the village where we were. Some of them, the eldest, were women from 20 to 22 years of age, and there were youths from 18 to 19, but the large majority was made up of boys and girls from 7 years to 14 or 15 years of age."

Thus, women slaves in the Arab world were often turned into concubines living in harems, and rarely as wives, their children becoming free. A large number of male slaves and young boys were castrated and turned into eunuchs who kept watch over the harems. Castration was a particularly brutal operation with a survival rate of only 10%.

“The combined effect of all these factors,” says Duncan Clarke, “was a steady demand for slaves throughout the Islamic world, which had cover story to be met from wars, raids or purchases along the borders with non-Islamic regions. Although some of these slaves came from Russia, the Balkans and central Asia, the continuing expansion of Islamic regimes in sub-Saharan Africa made black Africans, the major source.”

https://newafricanmagazine.com/16616/


For those lazy to read here's a youtube video



teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#2
RE: Islam slave trade
Is the video in Latin?

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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#3
RE: Islam slave trade
(October 22, 2019 at 7:19 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: OK it seems I or we started this topic in chat box, so I might as well open the new topic since.

For the readers of the topic; I -atlass- responded to the rubbish xenophobia & islamophoebic posts which the user -Fake Messiah- was vomiting everywhere in the shoutbox.

He hides real history of how Islam during the time of prophet Mohammed -peace be upon him- the black face that was officially appointed to declare the call for the prayer everyday; and also climbes the Ka'aba to declare the victory of Muslims against the heathen slavers of Mecca: his infamous nemesis:

This is the article about Bilal -pace be upon him-:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilal_ibn_Rabah

Then, after hundreds of years, a Muslim empire managed to kill the mongol invasions to the world by defeating the mongols and save the world; this Islamic empire was ruled by ex-slaves that the tolerance of Islam led them to rule even rule the empire:

https://www.thoughtco.com/who-were-the-mamluks-195371

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamluk_Sultanate_(Cairo)

Decensy suggests that you mention real, authentic history instead of bellydancing around texts while cherry picking; it's not good for the head

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#4
RE: Islam slave trade
All the slaves sold to Europeans on the West African coast were the prisoners of Africans.
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#5
RE: Islam slave trade
(October 26, 2019 at 2:43 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: All the slaves sold to Europeans on the West African coast were the prisoners of Africans.

Yup.  The Pacific slave trade was a much darker affair (no pun intended), but doesn't get nearly as much notice.

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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#6
RE: Islam slave trade
@AtlasS33

So are we allowed to criticize Islam without being called xenophobes?
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
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#7
RE: Islam slave trade
(October 26, 2019 at 2:23 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: For the readers of the topic; I -atlass- responded to the rubbish xenophobia & islamophoebic posts which the user -Fake Messiah- was vomiting everywhere in the shoutbox.
You, Atlass, are a fucking bigot and know shit about history, especially about muslim history. You are, probably on purpose, spreading propaganda, which makes you a liar as well. Its sickening to see how you bend over backwards to whitewash your religion, how you sell out your humanity and integrity for just another violent religion. Shame on you.  Diablo
Oh well, i bet you feel persecuted by me now.  Dodgy

(October 26, 2019 at 2:23 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Then, after hundreds of years, a Muslim empire managed to kill the mongol invasions to the world by defeating the mongols and save the world
Mamluks didnt save the world, they saved their own asses. At the time of Ain Jalut, Hulegu had to pull out most Mogol troops and left only one tumen in syria. This was due to the fact that his brother Möngke died and succession had to be sorted out. If Hulegu didnt have to do this, the Mamluks would have been steamrolled. The very same situation saved europe after the crushing defeat of polish and hungarian knights somw 20y earlier.

(October 26, 2019 at 2:23 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: ; this Islamic empire was ruled by ex-slaves that the tolerance of Islam led them to rule even rule the empire:
Who were the slaveholders of the Mamluks? Who enslaved the Mamluks? The muslim Abbasids maybe? Was slavery probably custom in the abbasid caliphate? Think

(October 26, 2019 at 2:23 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Decensy suggests that you mention real, authentic history instead of bellydancing around texts while cherry picking; it's not good for the head
You of all people saying this is quite...........fascinating, isnt it?
So, whom did the muslim Abbasids enslave?
Did the arab slave trade under muslim rule exist or not?
Did muslims during the barbary slave trade enslave christians?
Did muslims enslave and indoctrinate kids to become Janissaries, made fanatics out of them, and still forbade them to have families so that they would be loyal to their corps?

You didnt really expect your disgusting lies and propaganda to remain unanswered, did you?
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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#8
RE: Islam slave trade
(October 26, 2019 at 3:25 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: @AtlasS33

So are we allowed to criticize Islam without being called xenophobes?

Don't see why not.  We can criticize Islam for being a bog standard religion without criticizing Muslims.  We can criticize Muslims for the stupid things they do in the name of their religion.

In this respect, Islam is nothing special.

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
Reply
#9
RE: Islam slave trade
(October 26, 2019 at 5:09 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(October 26, 2019 at 3:25 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: @AtlasS33

So are we allowed to criticize Islam without being called xenophobes?

Don't see why not.  We can criticize Islam for being a bog standard religion without criticizing Muslims.  We can criticize Muslims for the stupid things they do in the name of their religion.

In this respect, Islam is nothing special.

Boru

Glad you think so. Only if others felt the same. I remember when Ben Affleck threw a fit over Maher and Harris criticizing Islam on Real Time.
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
Reply
#10
RE: Islam slave trade
(October 26, 2019 at 3:25 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: @AtlasS33

So are we allowed to criticize Islam without being called xenophobes?

Yes. When the motive of your criticism is not xenophobic

(October 26, 2019 at 4:33 pm)Deesse23 Wrote:
(October 26, 2019 at 2:23 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Then, after hundreds of years, a Muslim empire managed to kill the mongol invasions to the world by defeating the mongols and save the world
Mamluks didnt save the world, they saved their own asses. At the time of Ain Jalut, Hulegu had to pull out most Mogol troops and left only one tumen in syria. This was due to the fact that his brother Möngke died and succession had to be sorted out. If Hulegu didnt have to do this, the Mamluks would have been steamrolled. The very same situation saved europe after the crushing defeat of polish and hungarian knights somw 20y earlier.

Yes; they did. They defeated the mongols and ended their rein of terror.


Quote:
(10 hours ago)AtlasS33 Wrote: Wrote:Decensy suggests that you mention real, authentic history instead of bellydancing around texts while cherry picking; it's not good for the head
You of all people saying this is quite...........fascinating, isnt it?
So, whom did the muslim Abbasids enslave?
Did the arab slave trade under muslim rule exist or not?
Did muslims during the barbary slave trade enslave christians?
Did muslims enslave and indoctrinate kids to become Janissaries, made fanatics out of them, and still forbade them to have families so that they would be loyal to their corps?

You didnt really expect your disgusting lies and propaganda to remain unanswered, did you?


I don't know..
TBH Christians of Europe made a lot of people angry..

(October 26, 2019 at 5:09 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(October 26, 2019 at 3:25 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: @AtlasS33

So are we allowed to criticize Islam without being called xenophobes?

Don't see why not.  We can criticize Islam for being a bog standard religion without criticizing Muslims.  We can criticize Muslims for the stupid things they do in the name of their religion.

In this respect, Islam is nothing special.

Boru

Criticize. But always stay true to yourself and ask yourself: what kicked off the big bang?

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