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[Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
#1
[Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
Rome was a big empire. Their systems in architecture, agriculture and even their political method is enough to keep one baffled.

It was an empire way ahead of its time, with achievements reaching to the standards of modern culture.

In the Quran; they are mentioned by the name:


Quote:Sura 30, The Quran:
https://quran.com/30/1-11

Dr. Mustafa Khattab

(1) Alif-Lãm-Mĩm.
(2) The Romans have been defeated
(3) in a nearby land. Yet following their defeat, they will triumph

Dr. Ghali

(4) Within several years. To Allah belongs the Command ever before and ever after, and upon that day the believers will exult.

Dr. Mustafa Khattab

(5) at the victory willed by Allah. He gives victory to whoever He wills. For He is the Almighty, Most Merciful.
(6) ˹This is˺ the promise of Allah. ˹And˺ Allah never fails in His promise. But most people do not know.
(7) They ˹only˺ know the worldly affairs of this life, but are ˹totally˺ oblivious to the Hereafter.

Verse "2" specified the Romans by the name: الروم. That is utterly important; actually the prophecy it made in verse "3" did come true. The Romans might lost their empire, but their empire did triumph, and today we see their shadow everywhere; America; Europe; Asia and Africa.

I'm happy that the Roman civilization triumphed. I mean we saw what other civilizations do to Muslims and believers in God. The Roman-style allowed for fair elections, allowed for multi-cultural world; allowed for respect to the law -which Rome did-.

Let us not forget how China burned our books; while Britain kept the oldest Quran in its museums.

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#2
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
Wow, impressive, i mean your lack of knowledge of Rome....and your gullibility of course. Facepalm
I have a bridge to sell here. Interested?
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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#3
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
I think he already lives under one.
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#4
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
He doesnt even know the difference between the Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire. Facepalm
The political system of the Byzantine Empire was baffling.....in the amount of corruption, scheming and assassination, indeed Facepalm
Fair elections in the Byzantine empire. Yep, the emperor was elected, thats why he was an emperor Facepalm
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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#5
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
(January 5, 2020 at 6:14 am)Deesse23 Wrote: He doesnt even know the difference between the Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire. Facepalm
The political system of the Byzantine Empire was baffling.....in the amount of corruption, scheming and assassination, indeed Facepalm
Fair elections in the Byzantine empire. Yep, the emperor was elected, thats why he was an emperor Facepalm

Don't embarrass yourself more;  Rome got split due to many reasons including Christianity into two empires:
1) Eastern "based in modern day Turkey"; aka Byzantine empire -Christian-. Its capital fell to the Muslims; and got its name changed into "Islampol/Istanbul"
2) Western, fallen -Heathen-.

Both are the same empire; both were one; both were "one empire" that split later in its history.

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#6
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
(January 5, 2020 at 6:44 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:
(January 5, 2020 at 6:14 am)Deesse23 Wrote: He doesnt even know the difference between the Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire. Facepalm
The political system of the Byzantine Empire was baffling.....in the amount of corruption, scheming and assassination, indeed Facepalm
Fair elections in the Byzantine empire. Yep, the emperor was elected, thats why he was an emperor Facepalm

Don't embarrass yourself more;  Rome got split due to many reasons including Christianity into two empires:
Irrelevant and i knew this fact probably 2 (or 3) decades before you even started to read other books than your holy book.

(January 5, 2020 at 6:44 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: 1) Eastern "based in modern day Turkey"; aka Byzantine empire -Christian-. Its capital fell to the Muslims; and got its name changed into "Islampol/Istanbul"
Irrelevant to my post/reply to your original ignorant post. Please read again. You do read my posts, do you?


(January 5, 2020 at 6:44 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: 2) Western, fallen -Heathen-.
Religion wasnt a topic in your original post as it wasnt in my reply. So why the derailing?
Try to look up the religion of the gothic tribes (who were substantial in taking down the Western Roman Empire) during the 4th and 5th century, if you want Facepalm
Hint: They converted to christianity as soon as they came into contact with Rome in the 3rd century. Facepalm

(January 5, 2020 at 6:44 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Both are the same empire; both were one; both were "one empire" that split later in its history.
Both were one, and at some time they werent anymore. Thats why we have two different names for them Facepalm
Rome was Rome, and Byzantium was Byzantium, aka the eastern Part of (former!) Rome and successor to the original Roman Empire.
Stop your sloppy thinking and consequently false equivocations. But whom am i tlaking to!? I just as well could talk to a wall. Facepalm


Lets recap your original ignorat post and my reply for clarity:

Quote:The Romans have been defeated
In fact, it was the Byzantines. And as i just had to explain to you Rome =!= Byzantium

(January 5, 2020 at 5:24 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Rome was a big empire. ....even their political method is enough to keep one baffled.
The politics of the Byzantine empire was ridden by scheming and corruption and lots of incompetence, evidenced by frequent assasisnation and exchange of emperors. Thats why it weakened over time (although, in between, pretty competent emperors and other leaders popped up)

(January 5, 2020 at 5:24 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: The Roman-style allowed for fair elections,
Fair elections in the Byzantine Empire? Where, When? Who elected the emperor(s)?

(January 5, 2020 at 5:24 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: I'm happy that the Roman civilization triumphed
Where did the greek/Byzantine civilization triumph? It was rather rubbed out due to....hold your breath.....the muslim expansion. Facepalm
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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#7
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
(January 5, 2020 at 5:24 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Verse "2" specified the Romans by the name: الروم.

Underwhelming. Rome had existed for over a millennium when the Quran was written. Kudos for a basic grasp of local geography and basic history.

Quote:That is utterly important; actually the prophecy it made in verse "3" did come true.

Really? When? Last I checked the Roman Empire collapsed a few centuries before your prophet was born.

Quote:The Roman-style allowed for fair elections, allowed for multi-cultural world; allowed for respect to the law -which Rome did-.

I don't think you know much about history. The Roman Republic was an oligarchy and the Empire was a dysfunctional dynasty. Neither had anything approaching fair elections. Try Athens instead. They're a few streets over and a couple of centuries ahead of the Romans in terms of governance. The Roman "multicultural world" included such high-minded advances as the destruction of the Second Temple period in Israel and the Sack of Carthage, just to name a few of the more prominent ones. They are the culture that coined the term decimation. Their "respect for law" amounted to imposing it at sword point and then ignoring it when it became inconvenient.

Go read a history book so you can make some arguments that don't sound utterly ignorant.
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#8
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
(January 5, 2020 at 12:51 pm)Paleophyte Wrote:
Quote:The Roman-style allowed for fair elections, allowed for multi-cultural world; allowed for respect to the law -which Rome did-.

I don't think you know much about history. The Roman Republic was an oligarchy and the Empire was a dysfunctional dynasty. Neither had anything approaching fair elections. Try Athens instead. They're a few streets over and a couple of centuries ahead of the Romans in terms of governance. The Roman "multicultural world" included such high-minded advances as the destruction of the Second Temple period in Israel and the Sack of Carthage, just to name a few of the more prominent ones. They are the culture that coined the term decimation. Their "respect for law" amounted to imposing it at sword point and then ignoring it when it became inconvenient.

Go read a history book so you can make some arguments that don't sound utterly ignorant.

Rome had a senate. I'm not discussing other cultures; but discussing the Roman culture that had a senate and carried out "voting".

I didn't say Rome is a role model; but I did say that it was so much better than other cultures -like the Persian-.
They had huge sins that led their society to be divided into eastern and western; and the biggest sin of all: forging a new bible to suit the sick needs of their emperors.

But when somebody does something good you have to give it to them. When somebody does a good deed be fair; at least that's what God tells Muslims to do. So let us give it to Rome: compare them to the Mongols to get my point.

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#9
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
(January 5, 2020 at 1:53 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Rome had a senate. I'm not discussing other cultures; but discussing the Roman culture that had a senate and carried out "voting".

Here is a quote from the link you posted. Facepalm

The Byzantines have been defeated
Facepalm
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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#10
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
(January 5, 2020 at 2:15 pm)Deesse23 Wrote:
(January 5, 2020 at 1:53 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Rome had a senate. I'm not discussing other cultures; but discussing the Roman culture that had a senate and carried out "voting".

Here is a quote from the link you posted. Facepalm

The Byzantines have been defeated
Facepalm

The verse in Arabic says: "الروم"
The Romans.

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