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[Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
#21
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
(January 6, 2020 at 1:10 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:
(January 5, 2020 at 9:39 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: Rome's Senate was made of rich Senators elected by rich Senators. It was never a democracy.

And you still haven't told us when the Romans fulfilled this prophecy. Their empire is dust.

The Roman empire's center fell; but its legacy thrived and hundreds of civilizations carried out its method.
If you wanted to see the Roman overcoming of ages look at the U.S.

I don't call the "leaving of proxies" a decisive fall.

That doesn't sound like much of a triumph and that makes this prophecy a load of bunk.
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#22
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
(January 6, 2020 at 9:45 pm)Paleophyte Wrote:
(January 6, 2020 at 1:10 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: The Roman empire's center fell; but its legacy thrived and hundreds of civilizations carried out its method.
If you wanted to see the Roman overcoming of ages look at the U.S.

I don't call the "leaving of proxies" a decisive fall.

That doesn't sound like much of a triumph and that makes this prophecy a load of bunk.

Roman proxies did triumph to the degree of owning atomic bombs and form their own international system. It is a long-term victory.
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#23
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
Heads up..

After searching and reading more about the history of the empire; I reached this conclusion:

Rome became too big; so an emperor called "Diocletian" split it into "Eastern" and "Western". Later on, a general called "Constantine" -yep; the guy who I believe re-forged the bible- came into power in the west; then united the two empires into a single Rome back again, advocating Christianity instead of heathen faith, and moving the capital from "Rome" to "Constantinople".

https://www.ancient.eu/Constantine_I/

I defend my interpretation with this fact. Constantine united the two empires even before Mohammed -peace be upon him- is born.
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#24
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
(January 6, 2020 at 11:19 pm)The AtlasS33 Wrote: Heads up..

After searching and reading more about the history of the empire; I reached this conclusion:

Rome became too big; so an emperor called "Diocletian" split it into "Eastern" and "Western".  Later on, a general called "Constantine" -yep; the guy who I believe re-forged the bible- came into power in the west; then united the two empires into a single Rome back again, advocating Christianity instead of heathen faith, and moving the capital from "Rome" to "Constantinople".

https://www.ancient.eu/Constantine_I/

I defend my interpretation with this fact. Constantine united the two empires even before Mohammed -peace be upon him- is born.

Even before Mohammed was born, well, that is early!

Sorry to tell you, the birth of Muhammad was very late in the >10000 years of agrarian civilization with urban centers, very late in the 5000 years of civilization with known writing, civil service and beauracracy, very late in the at least 3700 years of sophisticated cities with sewer system, running water, public parks, and urban planning, very late in the at least 3500 years of sophisticated astronomy, late in the at least 2700 years of truly multicultural imperial governance, late in the at least 2300 years of incipient scientific thinking.

And Not only late, but made little real positive impact on the course of human civilization, other than to encourage the ancestors of several hundred muslims today to lock their descendants into a sadly unself-reflective backwardness. 

Rome did not become too big.   It had largely reached its full size almost 250 years before Diocletian.  It had run lately smoothly for nearly 150 years.   What set Rome on course to being split up is a half century of civil wars during which order was disrupted, coinage debased,  trade declined, land under cultivation decreased, central authority weakened, rulers succeeded each-other quickly and with violence, so planning horizon shrank to a year or two at most. 

It was to reverse this that Diocletian attempted to divide the empire so the empire can be administered more effectively, but more important each of the now much less interconnected regions can be operated in a manner more suitable to its strength.

Roman Empire May be said to have divided because romans did not outgrew the sensibilities of regional agrarian republic.
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#25
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
(January 6, 2020 at 11:19 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Heads up..

After searching and reading more about the history of the empire; I reached this conclusion:

Rome became too big; so an emperor called "Diocletian" split it into "Eastern" and "Western".  Later on, a general called "Constantine" -yep; the guy who I believe re-forged the bible- came into power in the west; then united the two empires into a single Rome back again, advocating Christianity instead of heathen faith, and moving the capital from "Rome" to "Constantinople".

https://www.ancient.eu/Constantine_I/

I defend my interpretation with this fact. Constantine united the two empires even before Mohammed -peace be upon him- is born.
If you have to google Diocletian and Constantine, then you dont have a clue about Rome in the first place Facepalm
Also note: The empire was separated immediately after Constantine again.
Around 500 (still 100 years before Mohammed, i shit on him) it was BYZANTINE emperor Justinian who almost succeeded in capturing the western part again from the -not-so-heathen Gothic tribes. Almost! Maybe you should google that as well Facepalm
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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#26
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
A fun convo and all...but the US doesn't bear any resemblance to rome, anyway. The comparison is more a term of art than anything else. Why can't magic book ever get shit right? Or is it you, Atlas?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#27
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
(January 6, 2020 at 10:16 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:
(January 6, 2020 at 9:45 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: That doesn't sound like much of a triumph and that makes this prophecy a load of bunk.

Roman proxies did triumph to the degree of owning atomic bombs and form their own international system. It is a long-term victory.

Those aren't Roman proxies, they're Rome's distant descendants. You can't have proxies if you're vanquished and your empire ground to dust. It makes more sense to claim that America is Mexican (All Hail Huītzilōpōchtli!) than Roman, not that either would be sensible.

Read that verse again. Does it say Roman proxies? Roman descendants? No. It says "Romans" straight out. Congrats on showing yet one more way that the Quran is wrong.
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#28
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: (2) The Romans have been defeated
(January 7, 2020 at 5:58 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: A fun convo and all...but the US doesn't bear any resemblance to rome, anyway.  The comparison is more a term of art than anything else.  Why can't magic book ever get shit right?  Or is it you, Atlas?

Dunno, is your plumbing made of lead, like the plumbum used by romans? The existence of your current Prez and a lot of supporters point that way. Saturnism is a thing.
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