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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 30, 2020 at 3:34 pm
(January 30, 2020 at 3:27 pm)Brian37 Wrote: (January 30, 2020 at 12:26 pm)tackattack Wrote: @arewethereyet fear, as an emotion, generally correlates better to our physiological response of fight/flight more directly than endorphine induced elation regarding some happy thoughts, thus the negative would have a stronger hold than the positive in most instances.
Huge difference between fearing getting hit while trying to cross a busy crosswalk at an intersection, and fearing Darth Vader.
The problem with our species evolution, worldwide, is that we started out in a scientifically ignorant age. And unfortunately to this day, most humans simply buy the superstitions their parents sell them in youth prior to formulating adult critical thinking skills.
Not a difference at all if a person believes in Darth Vader and is afraid.
Not all people know the difference between real and make believe - oh look, this is an atheist forum, I bet that's come up before.
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 30, 2020 at 3:46 pm
(January 30, 2020 at 3:34 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: (January 30, 2020 at 3:27 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Huge difference between fearing getting hit while trying to cross a busy crosswalk at an intersection, and fearing Darth Vader.
The problem with our species evolution, worldwide, is that we started out in a scientifically ignorant age. And unfortunately to this day, most humans simply buy the superstitions their parents sell them in youth prior to formulating adult critical thinking skills.
Not a difference at all if a person believes in Darth Vader and is afraid.
Not all people know the difference between real and make believe - oh look, this is an atheist forum, I bet that's come up before.
Yes, precisely for the reasons I said.
If you grow up uninformed you natural fight or flight responses are going to be compounded by superstition.
If your parents tell you Apollo, or Thor are going to punish you for disobeying them, you are going to act according to what you think will avoid you harm, even if the threat sold you isn't real.
But there still is a REAL difference between worrying about getting hit by a car crossing the street, vs falsely believing Lex Luthor is going to kill you.
Andrea Yates murdered her kids because her mental illness was not addressed with professional clinical help, but because she was sold fire and brimstone bullshit. In her mind she was doing the right thing. Because of religion, she thought it was better to kill her kids than, in her mind, let them end up in hell.
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 30, 2020 at 4:27 pm
Shut up Brian - I would really like to hear from Jehanne and/or Tack or any other true believer (now or previously a believer).
Your inane ramblings aren't answering questions that I am honestly curious about.
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 30, 2020 at 5:09 pm
(January 30, 2020 at 4:27 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Shut up Brian - I would really like to hear from Jehanne and/or Tack or any other true believer (now or previously a believer).
Your inane ramblings aren't answering questions that I am honestly curious about.
Not answering questions is Brian’s forte.
Boru
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 30, 2020 at 7:29 pm
Simple human avoidance Strongly limits our desire to think about negative things like hell. Therefore the concept of heaven is probably more fleshed our internally than hell would be, I would assume for most. In my personal case exploring internally the darker self is part of joe Johari’s window method of discovery for me. Theistically, New Testament teaching is to not focus on the bad things while still having an informed faith.
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"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 30, 2020 at 8:30 pm
(January 30, 2020 at 7:29 pm)tackattack Wrote: Simple human avoidance Strongly limits our desire to think about negative things like hell. Therefore the concept of heaven is probably more fleshed our internally than hell would be, I would assume for most. In my personal case exploring internally the darker self is part of joe Johari’s window method of discovery for me. Theistically, New Testament teaching is to not focus on the bad things while still having an informed faith.
-Sorry I’m in a parking lot
I am not familiar with Joe Johari so I am missing part of what you are saying. I will do some searching later. I'll get back with other questions most likely.
Thank you for answering though. While I don't understand belief since it didn't 'take' with me, I am curious as to some of the thought processes of believers.
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 30, 2020 at 11:17 pm
(January 30, 2020 at 12:04 am)arewethereyet Wrote: (January 29, 2020 at 3:59 pm)Jehanne Wrote: As a preteen, I used to suffer from night terrors about dying and going to eternal Hell. Went on for years, even after I renounced the evangelical Christian faith that I was born and brainwashed into. And, so, yes, I think it's child abuse.
Since I really never believed though I had to participate I didn't have the fear. But I have a question for you...Just as you had fear that an eternal hell was very real to you was the concept of some wonderful heavenly place as real? Did you truly believe that if you did everything 'right' you would have some beautiful after death spent with your loved ones?
I really puzzle about that. Does hell have the bigger hold on the mind of a child brought up like that than the concept of a heaven?
I am a transgender female; I swallowed the LGBTQ bigotry of my religious youth.
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 30, 2020 at 11:48 pm
(January 30, 2020 at 11:17 pm)Jehanne Wrote: (January 30, 2020 at 12:04 am)arewethereyet Wrote: Since I really never believed though I had to participate I didn't have the fear. But I have a question for you...Just as you had fear that an eternal hell was very real to you was the concept of some wonderful heavenly place as real? Did you truly believe that if you did everything 'right' you would have some beautiful after death spent with your loved ones?
I really puzzle about that. Does hell have the bigger hold on the mind of a child brought up like that than the concept of a heaven?
I am a transgender female; I swallowed the LGBTQ bigotry of my religious youth.
Like there wasn't/isn't enough BS to deal with, just what you needed was some religion-based guilt and fear. You had extra layers to deal with. I hate that for you but glad you are or have moved on from that.
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 31, 2020 at 2:04 am
This issue demonstrates why dogmatic religion simply isn't practical in the modern world.
Like it or not, the modern world IS a global society and will only move more and more in that direction as time goes on. In such a society, the dogmatic belief that those who believe different from you are EVIL and are bound for HELL is just simply impractical. The logical end-result of such is mass urban warfare and anarchy.
I think this is the bottom line which dooms dogmatic religion. It simply isn't tenable any more. You just can't live your life thinking that way in the modern world without becoming totally dysfunctional.
Dogmatic religion just doesn't work anymore. It's obsolete.
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 31, 2020 at 5:54 am
(January 31, 2020 at 2:04 am)AFTT47 Wrote: This issue demonstrates why dogmatic religion simply isn't practical in the modern world.
Like it or not, the modern world IS a global society and will only move more and more in that direction as time goes on. In such a society, the dogmatic belief that those who believe different from you are EVIL and are bound for HELL is just simply impractical. The logical end-result of such is mass urban warfare and anarchy.
I think this is the bottom line which dooms dogmatic religion. It simply isn't tenable any more. You just can't live your life thinking that way in the modern world without becoming totally dysfunctional.
Dogmatic religion just doesn't work anymore. It's obsolete.
Or as actually happens the population abandons the superstitions and the remaining churchgoers die of old age.
Quote:I don't understand why you'd come to a discussion forum, and then proceed to reap from visibility any voice that disagrees with you. If you're going to do that, why not just sit in front of a mirror and pat yourself on the back continuously?
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Evolution - Adapt or be eaten.
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