Posts: 9339
Threads: 19
Joined: September 8, 2015
Reputation:
79
RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 29, 2020 at 11:03 am
(January 29, 2020 at 9:06 am)Chad32 Wrote: Just imagine being muslim, where your parents tell you that you'll go to hell if you don't follow islam, then some christian comes up and says you'll go to hell if you don't change religion. Sounds like either way you're risking hell, so there's always going to be someone telling you that their god is going to toss you into a lake of fire for not sticking with the right religion.
Works the other way around too. That's how you know this hell thing is bullshit. You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
This sort of conflicting "facts" is one source for the seeds of skepticism. They can't both be right.
If you get to thinking you’re a person of some influence, try ordering somebody else’s dog around.
Posts: 9176
Threads: 76
Joined: November 21, 2013
Reputation:
40
RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 29, 2020 at 12:03 pm
(This post was last modified: January 29, 2020 at 12:04 pm by Chad32.)
(January 29, 2020 at 9:37 am)Fierce Wrote: The issue is that theists tend to have a backwards view of what loving means. After all, those incapable of seeing what a monster their god is will erroneously view their own actions of saving someone's soul as loving.
And they're jump to special pleading if you compare what their god does, to what Humans do. If anyone else did the crap that their god did, everyone would call him a monster. But they say "well god is different, or he has the right to do what he wants because he created everything".
It's like when they want to credit every good thing that happens in the world to god, and every bad thing to us. It just doesn't make sense. Like there's never any negative consequences to the things their god tells people to do. You can't blame the big guy, because he's perfect. And we know he's perfect because he says he is. He also never lies, because he says he never lies. And liars always have to tell the truth about whether they lie or not.
I sometimes make the argument that if you have an idea of what the nature of god is, being omnibenevolent and stuff, and you see something in the bible that directly contradicts that, the right course of action is to exclude the god of the bible from being the one true god. Not make excuses for horrible actions because "He just has to be perfect. It's in his nature".
Posts: 66324
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 29, 2020 at 12:41 pm
(This post was last modified: January 29, 2020 at 12:44 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Well, you could just exclude that incongruous detail from magic books true or plausible portion.
As if people ever bullshitted anyone else about some fairies. Thing is, is that most of the people with issues like you mention actually worship the magic book, not the god it allegedly describes.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1538
Threads: 25
Joined: September 18, 2013
Reputation:
10
RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 29, 2020 at 1:44 pm
(January 29, 2020 at 9:06 am)Chad32 Wrote: Just imagine being muslim, where your parents tell you that you'll go to hell if you don't follow islam, then some christian comes up and says you'll go to hell if you don't change religion. Sounds like either way you're risking hell, so there's always going to be someone telling you that their god is going to toss you into a lake of fire for not sticking with the right religion.
Works the other way around too. That's how you know this hell thing is bullshit. You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
Also applies to xtians of different denominations, (and presumably to muslim denominations as well) so there is no way to win. All those bible bashers shouting abuse on the streets are going to hell as well because none of them picked the right one.
Quote:I don't understand why you'd come to a discussion forum, and then proceed to reap from visibility any voice that disagrees with you. If you're going to do that, why not just sit in front of a mirror and pat yourself on the back continuously?
- Esquilax
Evolution - Adapt or be eaten.
Posts: 7259
Threads: 506
Joined: December 12, 2015
Reputation:
22
RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 29, 2020 at 3:59 pm
As a preteen, I used to suffer from night terrors about dying and going to eternal Hell. Went on for years, even after I renounced the evangelical Christian faith that I was born and brainwashed into. And, so, yes, I think it's child abuse.
Posts: 15182
Threads: 115
Joined: July 10, 2013
Reputation:
65
RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 30, 2020 at 12:04 am
(January 29, 2020 at 3:59 pm)Jehanne Wrote: As a preteen, I used to suffer from night terrors about dying and going to eternal Hell. Went on for years, even after I renounced the evangelical Christian faith that I was born and brainwashed into. And, so, yes, I think it's child abuse.
Since I really never believed though I had to participate I didn't have the fear. But I have a question for you...Just as you had fear that an eternal hell was very real to you was the concept of some wonderful heavenly place as real? Did you truly believe that if you did everything 'right' you would have some beautiful after death spent with your loved ones?
I really puzzle about that. Does hell have the bigger hold on the mind of a child brought up like that than the concept of a heaven?
“If you are the smartest person in the room, then you are in the wrong room.” — Confucius
Posts: 4446
Threads: 87
Joined: December 2, 2009
Reputation:
47
RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 30, 2020 at 12:26 pm
@ arewethereyet fear, as an emotion, generally correlates better to our physiological response of fight/flight more directly than endorphine induced elation regarding some happy thoughts, thus the negative would have a stronger hold than the positive in most instances.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
Posts: 19881
Threads: 324
Joined: July 31, 2016
Reputation:
34
RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 30, 2020 at 2:21 pm
Being abusive is abuse.
Posts: 15182
Threads: 115
Joined: July 10, 2013
Reputation:
65
RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 30, 2020 at 3:19 pm
(January 30, 2020 at 12:26 pm)tackattack Wrote: @arewethereyet fear, as an emotion, generally correlates better to our physiological response of fight/flight more directly than endorphine induced elation regarding some happy thoughts, thus the negative would have a stronger hold than the positive in most instances.
I get that but what I asked is if the belief was as 'real' when thinking about heaven as it was about hell. Did you have heaven as thought out as you did hell? Was it all about avoiding hell or was there some thought about working your way into heaven. Do you spend your life trying not to sin too much in order to escape punishment? If that's what life is about I am not seeing the appeal in the whole Christian belief system. A life spent either avoiding doing something 'wrong' and atonement for every potential misstep seems like a miserable way to live.
It seems even more empty to have the 'get out of jail free card' by claiming to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. How many murderers and rapists find Jesus in prison? Just think - that's who you get to spend eternity with - someone who said the magic words.
“If you are the smartest person in the room, then you are in the wrong room.” — Confucius
Posts: 30673
Threads: 2117
Joined: May 24, 2012
Reputation:
71
RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
January 30, 2020 at 3:27 pm
(January 30, 2020 at 12:26 pm)tackattack Wrote: @arewethereyet fear, as an emotion, generally correlates better to our physiological response of fight/flight more directly than endorphine induced elation regarding some happy thoughts, thus the negative would have a stronger hold than the positive in most instances.
Huge difference between fearing getting hit while trying to cross a busy crosswalk at an intersection, and fearing Darth Vader.
The problem with our species evolution, worldwide, is that we started out in a scientifically ignorant age. And unfortunately to this day, most humans simply buy the superstitions their parents sell them in youth prior to formulating adult critical thinking skills.
|
