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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
February 8, 2020 at 7:57 am
(February 8, 2020 at 7:22 am)ColdComfort Wrote: (February 8, 2020 at 6:22 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I'm happy to be a test case for this. I lost an eye when I was 17. There are numerous photos of me with and without my eyepatch. The incident in which I lost my eye was reported by news outlets around the world. There are literally hundreds of people are can stand witness to the fact that my left eye is missing, including the surgeons who operated on me.
The day my eye grows back is the day I'll start believing in miracles.
Boru
So if the miracle happens to you you'll believe but if it happens to others than not so much? An what would believe.? You wouldn't be likely to conclude that it was the God of Israel or of the Christians because Scripture is a bunch of trash. I don't want to put words in your mouth but it's a safe bet that's what you think. And I still don't get it. If someone has parkinsons or cancer one day but not the next how is that something that you would not bring you to believe in miracles. You're a very demanding guy it seems. Not just any seemingly miraculous cure will do. It has to be of a very specific type.
Using the example of my eye was just that - an example. I'd happily accept as a miracle Oscar Pistorius' legs growing back, or the girl in Atlas' video waking up tomorrow with two arms.
In fact, I'd accept as miraculous ANY event for which there is no possible mundane explanation. Simply because we don't yet know why some diseases spontaneously go into remission doesn't mean there isn't a more prosaic explanation than miracles.
Further, plenty of instances of diseases appearing to cure themselves occur across religious lines. If a devout Hindu with Parkinson's suddenly became free of the condition, I'm not sure we could confidently attribute it to the God of Israel.
And you're perfectly correct that you shouldn't put words in my mouth, as I'm honestly OK with some parts of scripture, such as the bits about caring for the poor, being kind to strangers, the injunctions against anger, and so on. It's just the goddy bits I have an issue with.
Boru
'
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
February 8, 2020 at 8:19 am
(February 8, 2020 at 7:48 am)ColdComfort Wrote: Even if what you say is true how does the state or the Church or anyone else get tens of thousands of people, Christians and non-Christians, to see what they saw about the sun? This is well documented. Their testimony has been written down. Even Fake and the other guy would have to accept that is evidence.
No, I wouldn't just like I don't accept that Lourdes is evidence of Hell because 1 in 3 million people heals there, just like I don't accept that Royal Touch is evidence that Hell exists and that monarchs are appointed by God(s). And that I don't accept that dragons are real because some catholics claim to have been miraculously healed near so-called dragon bones displayed in catholic churches.
And if you want to discuss Marian apparitions this is not the topic for it and we already discussed them in numerous topics, so maybe you could look them up.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
February 8, 2020 at 8:43 am
(February 8, 2020 at 8:19 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: (February 8, 2020 at 7:48 am)ColdComfort Wrote: Even if what you say is true how does the state or the Church or anyone else get tens of thousands of people, Christians and non-Christians, to see what they saw about the sun? This is well documented. Their testimony has been written down. Even Fake and the other guy would have to accept that is evidence.
No, I wouldn't just like I don't accept that Lourdes is evidence of Hell because 1 in 3 million people heals there, just like I don't accept that Royal Touch is evidence that Hell exists and that monarchs are appointed by God(s). And that I don't accept that dragons are real because some catholics claim to have been miraculously healed near so-called dragon bones displayed in catholic churches.
And if you want to discuss Marian apparitions this is not the topic for it and we already discussed them in numerous topics, so maybe you could look them up. Fatima , my friend, not Lourdes. Sure, I don't want to derail a thread. Isn't derailing a thread one of your logical fallacies?
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
February 8, 2020 at 8:45 am
(February 8, 2020 at 8:43 am)ColdComfort Wrote: (February 8, 2020 at 8:19 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: No, I wouldn't just like I don't accept that Lourdes is evidence of Hell because 1 in 3 million people heals there, just like I don't accept that Royal Touch is evidence that Hell exists and that monarchs are appointed by God(s). And that I don't accept that dragons are real because some catholics claim to have been miraculously healed near so-called dragon bones displayed in catholic churches.
And if you want to discuss Marian apparitions this is not the topic for it and we already discussed them in numerous topics, so maybe you could look them up. Fatima , my friend, not Lourdes. Sure, I don't want to derail a thread. Isn't derailing a thread one of your logical fallacies?
It's called "moving the goalposts". Derailing its usually not per se, but we should stay in the topic at hand..
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
February 8, 2020 at 9:18 am
Telling your children that they are going to hell may or may not be abusive - but telling them that they are going to Akron Ohio IS.....
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
February 8, 2020 at 9:46 am
(February 8, 2020 at 8:45 am)LastPoet Wrote: (February 8, 2020 at 8:43 am)ColdComfort Wrote: Fatima , my friend, not Lourdes. Sure, I don't want to derail a thread. Isn't derailing a thread one of your logical fallacies?
It's called "moving the goalposts". Derailing its usually not per se, but we should stay in the topic at hand..
It's called misreading. Lourdes, Fatima, Medjugorje have been all discussed on this forum and debunked.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
February 8, 2020 at 4:21 pm
(February 8, 2020 at 9:46 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: (February 8, 2020 at 8:45 am)LastPoet Wrote: It's called "moving the goalposts". Derailing its usually not per se, but we should stay in the topic at hand..
It's called misreading. Lourdes, Fatima, Medjugorje have been all discussed on this forum and debunked.
Now there's a statement I find dubious. As doubtful as another Jesse Smolett claim about harassment. But I'm willing to look at the evidence. Just not now.
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
February 8, 2020 at 4:24 pm
(February 8, 2020 at 4:21 pm)ColdComfort Wrote: (February 8, 2020 at 9:46 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: It's called misreading. Lourdes, Fatima, Medjugorje have been all discussed on this forum and debunked.
Now there's a statement I find dubious. As doubtful as another Jesse Smolett claim about harassment. But I'm willing to look at the evidence. Just not now.
'Jussie', not 'Jesse'. 'Smollett', not 'Smolett.'
If you're going to drag in irrelevancies, at least get them right.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
February 8, 2020 at 6:32 pm
I've often found the predictions of my Christian brothers and sisters of the coming persecution a little far fetched. But here, in this thread, I find the ideas and hatred towards Christians that make those predictions a little more believable. I have no hesitation in describing you as Nazis and Stalinists.
Now if I lived in 1938 Berlin I wouldn't bother to sit down with some guy and try to discuss with him the Jewish Problem. " Hans, do you really think the Jews stabbed Germany in the back in 1918 and don't you think the Nuremberg Laws might go a bit too far? Can't we talk this through?" The same goes for people here who propose using the power of the state, through child welfare laws, to prevent Christian parents from teaching their children Christianity. And of course the same arguments would apply to Muslim parents.
Now, this website is of course the absolute bottom of the barrel. But still, not only are you scoffers and intellectual frauds but now you are my enemy. And I mean that in earnest. Thanks for the warning signals. See you in the streets.
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RE: Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive?
February 8, 2020 at 6:56 pm
(This post was last modified: February 8, 2020 at 6:58 pm by The Valkyrie.)
(February 8, 2020 at 6:32 pm)ColdComfort Wrote: I've often found the predictions of my Christian brothers and sisters of the coming persecution a little far fetched. But here, in this thread, I find the ideas and hatred towards Christians that make those predictions a little more believable. I have no hesitation in describing you as Nazis and Stalinists.
Now if I lived in 1938 Berlin I wouldn't bother to sit down with some guy and try to discuss with him the Jewish Problem. " Hans, do you really think the Jews stabbed Germany in the back in 1918 and don't you think the Nuremberg Laws might go a bit too far? Can't we talk this through?" The same goes for people here who propose using the power of the state, through child welfare laws, to prevent Christian parents from teaching their children Christianity. And of course the same arguments would apply to Muslim parents.
Now, this website is of course the absolute bottom of the barrel. But still, not only are you scoffers and intellectual frauds but now you are my enemy. And I mean that in earnest. Thanks for the warning signals. See you in the streets.
So we're nazis and Stalin style communists?
You know those aren't on the same side, right?
I see you're also suffering from the standard Christian persecution complex, "you don't agree with me so you're attacking my faith and me directly. Boo-hoo!"
But since you're painting everyone on this website with the same brush, feel free to fuck off to a conservative fundamentalist forum.
Dying to live, living to die.
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