Hell is justified.

[The Architect Of Fate]

The exception is that God is a rational entity. 

Nope

He acts with constraints that he himself obligated himself to act upon; the Quran -which I believe in- listed many of these constraints.

Yup arbitrary crap 

Animals are not rational. The "mercy" for example is a constraint that God obligated himself to; thus you can see people "live, love, smile, laugh...", but "justice" is also another obligation God has; thus hell and suffering exist.

Yup arbitrary crap

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Animals are not rational. The "mercy" for example is a constraint that God obligated himself to; thus you can see people "live, love, smile, laugh...", but "justice" is also another obligation God has; thus hell and suffering exist.

One cannot be both merciful and just.  Justice negates mercy.

Boru

A historian tells of a young Confederate who was going to appear before Robert E. Lee for some crime or other. He was shaking like a leaf and one of the general's aides said,

"Don't worry, son, you get justice from the General."

"Yes sir, and that's what I'm afraid of."

[WinterHold]

The exception is that God is a rational entity. He acts with constraints that he himself obligated himself to act upon; the Quran -which I believe in- listed many of these constraints.

Animals are not rational. The "mercy" for example is a constraint that God obligated himself to; thus you can see people "live, love, smile, laugh...", but "justice" is also another obligation God has; thus hell and suffering exist.

We're also rational being with constraints, but most of us don't derive pleasure from torture and killing. In fact we don't generally kill at all, if we can help it. Except for that low percent of the population that are psychopaths. Now if your god is so powerful, and so knowledgeable, he should be able to figure out solutions that don't involve killing people, but he chooses to do it. He declared that everyone deserves death since the day they're born. So he's a psychopath who doesn't understand mercy, or justice. When you're only merciful to those who worship you, that's not real mercy. Even Hitler could show that kind of mercy.

Pleasure is not among the constraints that God acts upon; actually the Quran states explicitly that God "didn't create the universe to play":

Sura 44, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 38 )   And We did not create the heavens and earth and that between them in play.
( 39 )   We did not create them except in truth, but most of them do not know.

So "pleasure" is a feature incompatible to the God I believe in.

---

Animals are not rational. The "mercy" for example is a constraint that God obligated himself to; thus you can see people "live, love, smile, laugh...", but "justice" is also another obligation God has; thus hell and suffering exist.

One cannot be both merciful and just.  Justice negates mercy.

Boru

Yes they can in my opinion.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So "pleasure" is a feature incompatible to the God I believe in.

And that's today's mental health problem, folks. Have fun.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Yes they can in my opinion.

Your opinion on this counts for bugger all. Mercy and justice are mutually exclusive qualities.  Fact, not opinion.

Boru

[Deesse23]

One cannot be both merciful and just.  Justice negates mercy.

Boru

Yes they can in my opinion.

Its not a matter of opinion. You are wrong.

[Chad32]

We're also rational being with constraints, but most of us don't derive pleasure from torture and killing. In fact we don't generally kill at all, if we can help it. Except for that low percent of the population that are psychopaths. Now if your god is so powerful, and so knowledgeable, he should be able to figure out solutions that don't involve killing people, but he chooses to do it. He declared that everyone deserves death since the day they're born. So he's a psychopath who doesn't understand mercy, or justice. When you're only merciful to those who worship you, that's not real mercy. Even Hitler could show that kind of mercy.

Pleasure is not among the constraints that God acts upon; actually the Quran states explicitly that God "didn't create the universe to play":

Sura 44, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 38 )   And We did not create the heavens and earth and that between them in play.
( 39 )   We did not create them except in truth, but most of them do not know.

So "pleasure" is a feature incompatible to the God I believe in.

---

One cannot be both merciful and just.  Justice negates mercy.

Boru

Yes they can in my opinion.

So he doesn't know what fun is, but we want to be in heaven with him? The carrot's really not looking so crisp and fresh. Then again, if he's offering up 72 virgins to people, he must at least understand the concept of pleasure. I guess he just doesn't partake, because he's too busy torturing people he doesn't like. And some people he does like, if we take Job as an example.

You can show mercy sometimes, and justice other times, but you can't be 100% both at the same time, at all times. And when most people describe how great their god is, they usually mean 110% all the way, with no room for error.

[Abaddon_ire]

Your god is supposed to be better than human, isn't he? Perfection, even? And as mere humans we should strive towards your god's perfection, shouldn't we?
Doesn't that mean we should become better torturers?

Yes. You don't just strive to his perfection;

So we should not only torture others, we should strive to perfect our torture of others. Got it.

You are one sick puppy.

your society is copy-catting God but in a very bad way.

Which society? You have no idea where I live, do you.

Hint: Not America.

Nope. Now you claim that your god is sub-human.

He's not even human or close to being one; that's the point I'm repeating here.

I agree. Your god is not even close to human. That is a standard he/she/it/housecat fails to reach. Sub-human god.

And that humans have a higher moral standard than your god.

If morals are "ignoring facts and ignoring the basic human emotions", then that's one lying to themselves and call it "higher standard".

Your god always ignores facts and human emotions and calls it a higher standard. You, yourself, are doing it right now on his/her/its/housecats behalf.

Do you not find it odd that you have to lower your own moral standards so far and still struggle to get as low as your god?

You can't rule without pain; or else close the prisons and courts and see what happens.

Prisons and courts do not inflict pain in civilised countries. Unlike yours.

[Mister Agenda]

So you're saying it's God's nature to torture, like it's a scorpion's nature to sting? Like a venomous wasp, God has no moral agency, you disturb God and God tortures you because that is just what God does.

One of the many problems with your comparison is that if we can't say God is evil when God tortures for the same reason that we can't say a bear is evil when it mauls someone; we also can't say God is good when God elevates a soul to heaven, just like we can't say a lion is good if it chases off a hyena that was about to attack us. Only a being with moral agency can be bad or good, when we call a dog a 'good boy', we aren't saying the dog knows the difference between good and evil and chooses good; we're saying the dog is obedient and affectionate and we like that.

The exception is that God is a rational entity. He acts with constraints that he himself obligated himself to act upon; the Quran -which I believe in- listed many of these constraints.

Animals are not rational. The "mercy" for example is a constraint that God obligated himself to; thus you can see people "live, love, smile, laugh...", but "justice" is also another obligation God has; thus hell and suffering exist.

So, not like a lion or snake in any morally relevant sense at all? You know, you can abandon that analogy. All of us make an inapt analogy sometimes.

---

Yes they can in my opinion.

Your opinion on this counts for bugger all. Mercy and justice are mutually exclusive qualities.  Fact, not opinion.

Boru

Right, justice is when you get the punishment you have coming; mercy is when someone decides not to deliver it.

[tackattack]

My opinion, I don't think justice can really exist without mercy. You may think they're mutually exclusive, but are they? Have you ever loved and hated someone? Maybe the differences are more subtle or the definitions are muddled here, but I don't think justice and mercy, on general principle, are mutually exclusive.