(May 22, 2020 at 4:58 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: (May 22, 2020 at 11:35 am)Drich Wrote: no that was all me for free.
Christian=/=perfect/sinless.
Christian=/=I know i am a A-hole forgive me god.
LMAO.
So then, under your cult's version, you get to do absolutely anything, and ask for "forgiveness".
Your reply proves, yet again, you actually never really studied the Bible.
Jesus said "Be ye perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect,"
Matthew 5:48
I guess that means you're 110 % WRONG about Christianity, AND your Father is as much of a dickhead as you are.
BTW, your reply is dishonest. I said nothing about Christians being "perfect". Can you not read and reply to the POINT ? I guess not.
if you start with verse 43 and read through contextually you whole sham exegesis can be disregarded. Jesus contextually is calling for the perfection of God through the very specific act of loving your enemies. which is why i am answering you here now.
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
could call ou a liar for cutting and pasteing jesus words with your own but i think it's far less devious than that. It is far more probable you are simply not smart enough to know what the verse you quoted really means. which again is why i am here helping my enemy to have a chance to know God's truth
Quote:Under your version, Hitler could have been a Christian. Also that's not what Jesus said.
actually he couldn't as under positive christianity hitler was the head of the nazi church. Christ and christ alone is the head of the church.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity
Quote:You made up your cult, and dishonestly named it "Christian".
so long as Christ is at the center his atoenement will wash away all sin, including those that people make in earnest worship.
Quote:You're a fraud, besides being totally ignorant of world religions.
i will pay for 1/2 plane ticket if you are serious and show you round everything i have shared. medical records as i have access to them,
Quote:In one of the seminal works in Christian 20th Century writing, Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrote about the hypocrisy of (Drich's) "cheap grace" in his (famous) book,
"The Cost of Discipleship". Yeah this is one of the forums where you can actually watch a (fake) Christian get educated about his own cult by a non-believer, who never even read this work.
"Cheap grace, Bonhoeffer says, is to hear the gospel preached as follows: "Of course you have sinned, but now everything is forgiven, so you can stay as you are and enjoy the consolations of forgiveness." The main defect of such a proclamation is that it contains no demand for discipleship."
because bohnffe is not smart enough to tie the loose end up that come in the completion of the law. turn to your fav chapter mat 5. after jesus says he is here to complete the law, he made the law complete not only extending the moral side to thought sin, but the ceremonial laws as well.
which is why there are no sacrificial burning of animals incenses and the like, as jesus' sacrifice completed the law, which does establish a perpetual state of grace. which does indeed bohnffe observation valid. but jesus right then and there saw this too (jesus smarter than bohnffee) says that our righteousness upon the completion of the law would have to exceed the righteousness of the pharisees. The righteousness of the pharisees was based on the following the letter of the law/discipleship in legalism. but now Christ extends the law to a perpetual state of grace. changes the way we obtain righteousness. as we can no longer obtain it through legalistic practices as all laws are forgiven though atonbement and perpetual grace. (for those who follow Christ) or rather who Christ counts as a follower.
Now what is it bohnffee missed? what did Christ say was the ultimate end or the full filment of all the laws of the phophets? what rules did Christ give when asked what are the most important? the answer is the same. Love God with all your being Love your neighbor as yourself. He said LOVE is the full fillment of the law. if that you can love God with all your being and all your thought words and deeds center around love for God first 1/2 the law including the moral law is complete. then love your neighbor as youself. these two laws represent all of Christianity laws and the OT laws. in love for God with all you being and neighbor as yourself you have a righteousness greater than the pharisees and a new center for discipleship. that is why you and bohnffer fail. yes taking the legalism away eliminated a discipleship based on legalism, but Christ calls us to do this any way when he said our righteousness must exceed that of the pharisees.
And don't argue this as 2000 years of history prove you wrong. yes even through the legalism of the dark ages because this principle has survived that time and while legalistic churches are dying the true picture of the church is making it's way out again
Quote:The greatest and the best of Christian thinkers REJECT Drich's position, which is outside of any Christian group's position.
they are not so great if i can show you scriptural how and where their apologetic stop and the scripture presses on. (also note these same men rally behind the idea a preist shall not be married even though paul himself warns of any institution or priest who forbids marriage. men who approve pictures statues and carvings of god when the bible clearly says not to do this. men who invent purgatory when the bible never mentions it. men who would have you pay the church indulgences for sin that would normally send you to purgatory, but can be used as a get out of jail free card. This is why such men wanted to retain tight control over the church through the law. because there was no money in it for them if they were not charging people for their sacraments/forgiveness.
Quote:Forgiveness does not come without "repentance", and that involves more that "doing nothing", which is Drich's (preposterous) position.
guess dont need these two chapters..
Peace and Hope
5 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we[b] boast in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we[c] also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.
6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.
15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
Slaves to Righteousness
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
19 I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[b] Christ Jesus our Lord.
Quote:Even for those who *claim* nondenominalizationist positions (Drich) .... there is no such thing as "non-denominaiztionism", BTW (as Baptist Steven Harmon said "there's really no such thing" as a nondenominational church, because "as soon as a supposedly non-denominational church has made decisions about what happens in worship, whom and how they will baptize, how and with what understanding they will celebrate holy communion, what they will teach, who their ministers will be and how they will be ordered, or how they relate to those churches, these decisions have placed the church within the stream of a specific type of denominational tradition." ... and one of the founding fathers of this (supposed) "non-denominationalism" said "Create in me a CLEAN HEART O God. Let me be like you in all my ways". - John Michael Talbot. Even in Drippy's own cult, grace is not cheap, and REQUIRES a change of heart. Forgiveness is not "free". Dripshit has not one clue about what he pretends to know about. But thank you Dripshit ... for the opportunity you always offer, to be corrected, and for us to show we know more about what we're talking about here than you ever will.
because baptist are the only one going to heaven... duh!
Preacher joke!
There was an old Pentecostal preacher died at the same time his non-denomination preacher buddied died and st peter welcomed them at the gates and the went for a tour on a cloud and saw the different parts of heaven. first place they went by peter showed these bronze age deists in heaven cooking a big mamouth looking creature whooping up having a good time and one ask peter who's in there.. he said adam eve abraham all of the deists who knew and loved God before there was a religion, and so on to the jews, the 1st century church, and they went to another each having more fun than the last.. then it got very quite and peter said to the preachers be very quiet we are comming up the the baptist area, don't disturb them. God said they can handle the shock as they think they are the only ones here!!!
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