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February 17, 2011 at 11:45 am (This post was last modified: February 17, 2011 at 11:44 pm by KichigaiNeko.)
(February 17, 2011 at 11:29 am)Godschild Wrote: To all who just responded to my statement, read it again and you will see that I do not believe that hell is a place where people will burn forever, you all read just what you want to so that you can complain about a christians beliefs. I've never asked anyone to believe the way I do and I certainly have not judged anyone. I make statements about what I believe and do not ask you to believe them. RJ you should study the Bible before you go spouting off about what it says, you have no idea of it's content and you make that clear by what you say.
Yes God made a place called hell and it is for the unrepentant sinners who reject Christ. God did not create demons or Satan and since you made the statement the burden of proof is yours RJ so show us how much you know about scripture and prove your statements. Only in your deluded mind is God Lord of hell.
OnlyNatural why is it that you think God would want you to live in heaven with Him if you do not believe in Him. The way I see it He is doing you a favor by not forcing you to live with someone you can not stand and since there are only to places to spend eternity hell is all that's left.
KN I see nothing wrong with what I wrote, so the problem you have must be in the way you perceived what was written.
"You just don't get it do you??" to use your own phrase against you GC. So NOW I'm not READING your WORDS correctly?? How about YOU have no grip on the english language???
You worship the Lord of Hell and yes we are paraphrasing what you have stated because what you have stated is just troll-like verbosity to fool the gullible.
Of course you will not see that
Quote:Repent means that you want return to your old life style,
Does anyone find this remotely confusing??? One must repent and NOT change anything about their lifestyle??? And THIS is OK??? So I can go BACK to being a murderous arsehole, pedophile?? "HEY but I'VE ACCEPTED JEESUUUUSSSS!!!" So thats OK?
Oh poor you! You have NO argument, no 'evidence'..booohoooo and you get all your statements twisted around.
Yeah mate life sucks when the boot is on the other foot
And FFS USE A FUCKING SPELL CHECKER!!! AAAAAAAAaaaaaRRRRRggghhhh
(February 17, 2011 at 11:29 am)Godschild Wrote: The value of my belief lies with God, what ever you think about me or the way I believe does not bother me, it is apparent that you have issues with respect.
Respect??? from YOU!!!
Really GC NOW you are stretching things.
Let's refocus on a few FACTS
1. This is an ATHEIST FORUM
2. YOU are a THEIST (I spelt that slowly so you would not misunderstand me)
3. We don't care WHAT your 'belief is' you make a statement be prepared to back it up with some
SOLID EVIDENCE
4. Your statement above is not a get out of jail free card..."no one is picking on you" stop being such a
crybaby
5. And yes it does bother you... otherwise you wouldn't go on about it.
6. YOU EARN Respect ....
"if you feel you are not getting what you want...take a look at what you are giving"
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
February 17, 2011 at 12:19 pm (This post was last modified: February 17, 2011 at 12:31 pm by reverendjeremiah.)
(February 17, 2011 at 11:29 am)Godschild Wrote: Yes God made a place called hell and it is for the unrepented sinners who reject Christ. God did not create demons or Satan and since you made the statment the burden of proof is yours RJ so show us how much you know about scripture and prove your statements. Only in your deluded mind is God Lord of hell.
These verses say that God knows EVERYTHING past present and future.
Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
These verses say that god created ALL things, heaven, earth, ANGELS, earthly rulers were created BY him and FOR him for HIS reasons.
Therefore, if the bible says that God knows everything, including the future choices of his creations.
...and the bible says God created angels.
Then god KNEW some of the angels he would create would "rebel" against him and become devils and demons, yet he created those angels anyways. God being all knowing as the bible claims MUST have wanted those angels to become demons, otherwise he would not have created them. If god didnt like them becoming demons, he would have avoided it. He did not avoid it in the bible..
...therefore..god CREATED demons.
If you try to say "but freewill.."
Well, god has freewill as well right? So he used his freewill to decide to let his angels become demons, and to let them roam around the Earth. If god doesnt like demons, then why does he not destroy them all now? God is using his freewil to NOT destroy demons because he WANTS them to exist...as the mythology so goes...he WANTS those demons to wreak havok on his creation until the judgement. Therefore, God wants demons to exist. God WANTS demons to tempt people away from him, and he will NOT stop them until he feels like he is ready to judge them in the second death. God is all powerful, yet he lets the demons continue..so he obviously WANTS the demons to do what they are doing, otherwise he would stop them with a flick of his finger.
(February 17, 2011 at 11:29 am)Godschild Wrote: OnlyNatural why is it that you think God would want you to live in heaven with Him if you do not believe in Him. The way I see it He is doing you a favor by not forcing you to live with someone you can not stand and since ther are only to places to spend eternity hell is all thats left.
Nice bifurcation there. If it isnt heaven then it is hell right? So either I suck up to a god that I dispise and spend eternity worshipping a god I dispise or spend eternity being tortured by a god I dispised. That is doing me a favor? You worship a DEMON! Doing me a favor would be giving me the non-existence after death. That isnt freewill. Thats someone forcing me to my knees holding a gun to my head saying "suck it or die".
Pretty sad for you..knowing an atheist is more up to speed on your religion than you are. You cant even get the basic concepts like "hell" about your religion...sad...
I also noticed you had nothing to say about your god being the creator of hell, and being the one who tortures people forever in it. You must like the sick, twisted idea of torturing people in fire forever...sick perverted bastard. Your belief in hell and your refusal to admit it is wretchedly disgusting speaks VOLUMES of the scum that surrounds your inner thoughts and desires. You fucking disgust me.
Quote:Even if heaven was as you discribed it still beats doing the backstroke in a lake of fire as RJ so lovingly put it. Now just to make this matter clear I do not believe that a person who is in hell will be tormented by fire for eternity there are worse things that are not torture.
Just last night there was a special on History International about the evolution of Hell ( yes, G-C, Hell evolved....just as all life did). One of the main points was that there was surprisingly little written in any of the Holy Horseshit about what Hell was like. Most of the later bullshit evolved from stories that xtians told to scare the shit out of themselves and others in the Dark and Middle Ages. Obviously, in the case of people like G-C it worked like a charm.
February 17, 2011 at 4:46 pm (This post was last modified: February 17, 2011 at 5:22 pm by Godscreated.)
(February 17, 2011 at 11:41 am)reverendjeremiah Wrote:
(February 17, 2011 at 11:29 am)Godschild Wrote: To all who just responded to my statement, read it again and you will see that I do not believe that hell is a place where people will burn forever, you all read just what you want to so that you can complain about a christians beliefs.
One problem. Hell is eternal, and full of fire that burns, and people wailing and gnashing teeth. Jesus is quoted as saying this in the new testament. If you do not believe Hell is a place of eternal burning, and you think it unchristian to believe otherwise, then you have flat out contradicted the teachings of Christ.
Look man, you cant hold Jesus up as the supreme judge of morals and life and then pick and choose which ones you agree with Jesus on or not. Either he is the supreme, perfect judge or he made mistakes. He he is completely right or he is fallable.
Which one is it? Is the bible and Jesus correct about hell fire being eternal or are they wrong?
If you say hellfire isnt eternal, then I am JUST AS JUSTIFIED AS YOU to say that Jesus is not the savior..because if you think he is wrong about one thing, then why cant I think Jesus was wrong on another?
Jesus is the supreme judge of man and is never wrong and is a loving God. To let someone go to a firey place and suffer for eternity would be torture and God is not a torturer. Hell is a place of darkness, if it were full of fire it would not be dark. I do not know of anything worse than burning forever and I doubt you would disagree. So God chose this discription of hell because the mind of man can not concieve of the idea of eternal seperation from God and His love, the loneliness, the darkness of the soul and anything else that would be associated with this seperation. So you see I'm in full agreement with Christ when it comes to heaven and hell, it's your choice as to where you want to spend your eternal life as for me being with Christ and enjoying an eternal relationship with Him is exacyly what I've chosen.
(February 17, 2011 at 12:19 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote:
(February 17, 2011 at 11:29 am)Godschild Wrote: Yes God made a place called hell and it is for the unrepented sinners who reject Christ. God did not create demons or Satan and since you made the statment the burden of proof is yours RJ so show us how much you know about scripture and prove your statements. Only in your deluded mind is God Lord of hell.
These verses say that God knows EVERYTHING past present and future.
Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
These verses say that god created ALL things, heaven, earth, ANGELS, earthly rulers were created BY him and FOR him for HIS reasons.
Therefore, if the bible says that God knows everything, including the future choices of his creations.
...and the bible says God created angels.
Then god KNEW some of the angels he would create would "rebel" against him and become devils and demons, yet he created those angels anyways. God being all knowing as the bible claims MUST have wanted those angels to become demons, otherwise he would not have created them. If god didnt like them becoming demons, he would have avoided it. He did not avoid it in the bible..
...therefore..god CREATED demons.
If you try to say "but freewill.."
Well, god has freewill as well right? So he used his freewill to decide to let his angels become demons, and to let them roam around the Earth. If god doesnt like demons, then why does he not destroy them all now? God is using his freewil to NOT destroy demons because he WANTS them to exist...as the mythology so goes...he WANTS those demons to wreak havok on his creation until the judgement. Therefore, God wants demons to exist. God WANTS demons to tempt people away from him, and he will NOT stop them until he feels like he is ready to judge them in the second death. God is all powerful, yet he lets the demons continue..so he obviously WANTS the demons to do what they are doing, otherwise he would stop them with a flick of his finger.
(February 17, 2011 at 11:29 am)Godschild Wrote: OnlyNatural why is it that you think God would want you to live in heaven with Him if you do not believe in Him. The way I see it He is doing you a favor by not forcing you to live with someone you can not stand and since ther are only to places to spend eternity hell is all thats left.
Nice bifurcation there. If it isnt heaven then it is hell right? So either I suck up to a god that I dispise and spend eternity worshipping a god I dispise or spend eternity being tortured by a god I dispised. That is doing me a favor? You worship a DEMON! Doing me a favor would be giving me the non-existence after death. That isnt freewill. Thats someone forcing me to my knees holding a gun to my head saying "suck it or die".
Pretty sad for you..knowing an atheist is more up to speed on your religion than you are. You cant even get the basic concepts like "hell" about your religion...sad...
I also noticed you had nothing to say about your god being the creator of hell, and being the one who tortures people forever in it. You must like the sick, twisted idea of torturing people in fire forever...sick perverted bastard. Your belief in hell and your refusal to admit it is wretchedly disgusting speaks VOLUMES of the scum that surrounds your inner thoughts and desires. You fucking disgust me.
Look at the above quote please, enough said about that. Yes God is omniscient and omnipresent and He has allowed this world to suffer through sin but that is not the way it has to be, one can chose to live in a relationship with Him and avoid much of what sin does to people. I've already answered your statment about God and torture and if you can't understand what I've said then your second chance to understand will come when you are before God at your judgement. God will allow you to bring up every excuse you can think of but when you leave His presence and head to hell well all I know to say is freewill baby freewill.
You know nothing about God if you did you would be living in a relationship with Him and you do not know more about Him than I do. I do not need to run to the Bible and look up ever little verse to use in an argument, I try to live in a relationship with Him every day and He puts on my heart those things in scripture that are important to my life. Yes I study the scriptures and that is why I can know when He is helping me through life. I know you do not care and thats OK if thats what you desire in your heart, one day the answer will come and for me it will not be to late for you that's up to you. I've stated this for others and will say it again I did not come to this forum to convert anyone I'm hear to be challenged to learn.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(February 17, 2011 at 4:46 pm)Godschild Wrote: Jesus is the supreme judge of man and is never wrong and is a loving God. To let someone go to a firey place and suffer for eternity would be torture and God is not a torturer. Hell is a place of darkness, if it were full of fire it would not be dark. I do not know of anything worse than burning forever and I doubt you would disagree. So God chose this discription of hell because the mind of man can not concieve of the idea of eternal seperation from God and His love, the loneliness, the darkness of the soul and anything else that would be associated with this seperation. So you see I'm in full agreement with Christ when it comes to heaven and hell, it's your choice as to where you want to spend your eternal life as for me being with Christ and enjoying an eternal relationship with Him is exacyly what I've chosen.
Jesus is quoted saying "Hell FIRE"
Matthew 25:41 (Jesus speaking to people at final judgment), ...Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.
Revelation 20:12, 15, And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life...And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS. (Matthew 25:41)
the devil...shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)
So..Jesus himself is quoted MANY times saying hell is a lake of fire that burns forever and he is going to throw people into it.
(February 17, 2011 at 5:22 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote:
(February 17, 2011 at 4:46 pm)Godschild Wrote: Jesus is the supreme judge of man and is never wrong and is a loving God. To let someone go to a firey place and suffer for eternity would be torture and God is not a torturer. Hell is a place of darkness, if it were full of fire it would not be dark. I do not know of anything worse than burning forever and I doubt you would disagree. So God chose this discription of hell because the mind of man can not concieve of the idea of eternal seperation from God and His love, the loneliness, the darkness of the soul and anything else that would be associated with this seperation. So you see I'm in full agreement with Christ when it comes to heaven and hell, it's your choice as to where you want to spend your eternal life as for me being with Christ and enjoying an eternal relationship with Him is exacyly what I've chosen.
Jesus is quoted saying "Hell FIRE"
Matthew 25:41 (Jesus speaking to people at final judgment), ...Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.
Revelation 20:12, 15, And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life...And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS. (Matthew 25:41)
the devil...shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)
So..Jesus himself is quoted MANY times saying hell is a lake of fire that burns forever and he is going to throw people into it.
Did you even READ your bible?
You are hopeless.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
I'm hopeless? You say Hell isnt full of eternal flames, and demand the burdon of proof be on me for everything I do and say..and I show you proof with Jesus being quoted that Hell is an eternal lake of fire and all you can say is "you are hopeless"?
Why dont you have some integrity for a change and admit you were wrong?
Tell me I dont know God. I was a Southern Baptist for 25 years. Think I'm kidding with my name being Reverend Jeremiah? I AM a Reverend. I have studied christianity in depth. I have read the Bible cover to cover SEVERAL times. Written MANY sermons and commentaries on it.
(February 17, 2011 at 4:46 pm)Godschild Wrote: You know nothing about God if you did you would be living in a relationship with Him and you do not know more about Him than I do. I do not need to run to the Bible and look up ever little verse to use in an argument, I try to live in a relationship with Him every day and He puts on my heart those things in scripture that are important to my life. Yes I study the scriptures and that is why I can know when He is helping me through life. I know you do not care and thats OK if thats what you desire in your heart, one day the answer will come and for me it will not be to late for you that's up to you. I've stated this for others and will say it again I did not come to this forum to convert anyone I'm hear to be challenged to learn.
Put it another way, you are completely full of shit and don't pretend to derive your shit from the even that most dubious of sources.
(February 17, 2011 at 4:46 pm)Godschild Wrote: You know nothing about God if you did you would be living in a relationship with Him and you do not know more about Him than I do. I do not need to run to the Bible and look up ever little verse to use in an argument, I try to live in a relationship with Him every day and He puts on my heart those things in scripture that are important to my life. Yes I study the scriptures and that is why I can know when He is helping me through life. I know you do not care and that's OK if that's what you desire in your heart, one day the answer will come and for me it will not be to late for you that's up to you.
Spoken like a "good little slave" Way to go GC
(February 17, 2011 at 4:46 pm)Godschild Wrote: I've stated this for others and will say it again I did not come to this forum to convert anyone I'm hear to be challenged to learn.
Or as can be observed..... you are not here to "learn". I would speculate that you are here to "test your faith against 'those evil atheists'" Funniest thing is you have come up against those who HAVE intimate knowledge of your book and you have no argument other than lame & vague verbiage.
What you MAY have learnt is that you have sooo much more TO learn, and this is OK.
Good luck
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
February 18, 2011 at 4:28 am (This post was last modified: February 18, 2011 at 4:46 am by reverendjeremiah.)
(February 18, 2011 at 1:13 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Or as can be observed..... you are not here to "learn". I would speculate that you are here to "test your faith against 'those evil atheists'" Funniest thing is you have come up against those who HAVE intimate knowledge of your book and you have no argument other than lame & vague verbiage.
What you MAY have learnt is that you have sooo much more TO learn, and this is OK.
Good luck
Thats what I did ten years ago when I was a believer. I saw how my fellow christians and believers like GC went about their wares supporting them at first, but then seeing how the bible contradicted itself over and over again..that atheists new more about the Bible than I did..about how important logic is for humanity... how important science is for humanity... and how the bible has produced NOTHING good for humanity. Sure. At first I was like "But the bible brings good people together to do good things" but even that fell short. I realized good people do good things because they care about civilisation. About survival. About mutual benefit and ALL of that has been countered in the bible at some verse here and there. I found out the Bible was made to justify Imperialism, killing off of minorities to appease and entertain the majority, subjecting minorities as if possessions for the majority..hell, the bible even goes so far as to suggest prices for different age groups of slaves, and if you still are not sure then go to the priest with your slave and he will price him for you. The Bible is a book of slavery - physically, mentally, and socially. I dispise that book. I was raised Christian. I was Christian for the better part of 2 decades and I have EARNED the right to say that the Bible should be SPAT UPON!
MODERATORS - CG called me on Hell not being a lake of fire and called me to bare the burdon of proof. I went above and beyond the call of duty to logically show my burdon of proof and all this man has to say after my hard work was "You are hopeless". If I even posted two sentences of good atheist arguments in Rapture Ready I would have been perma-banned on the spot. This is an atheist forum for atheists by atheists. CG must have broken some kind of rule doing what he just did.
to use your own phrase against you GC. So NOW I'm not READING your WORDS correctly?? How about YOU have no grip on the english language???
You have NO argument, no 'evidence'..booohoooo and you get all your statements twisted around. 
