Planet Of the Humans, M Moore documentary...

[Brian37]

Not that scientists haven't been screaming the same thing long before. 

[Brian37]

Holy shit was that an eye opener.

It isn't enough to simply say "get of burning fossil fuels. Humans ultimately need to understand we cant simply consume our way to prosperity. And we cant keep expanding as a population. We need to understand we are an invasive species and not more important than other life.

[onlinebiker]

Micael Moore is a skank. He's an embarrasment to the State of Michigan.

[Duty]

This documentary is something else. Watch from 46:30 for 2 mins if you're disinclined to watch the lot - although it is an eyeopener of serious magnitude, as Brian37 says. 

The misapprehension that "renewable" energy = "green" energy is widespread, I've noticed many times in the past. "Bio mass" and "bio fuels" are renewable, to a degree, and perhaps sound green because they've got the word "bio" in them - but they are NOT green. Far far far from it.

[The Grand Nudger]

Corporate greenwashing is my main complaint with the establishment left. Haven't seen it yet, but I'm sure that Moore could barely describe the tip of the iceberg in an hour or two.

[Duty]

It is somewhat polemic Grand Nudger, no mention of nuclear power, tidal power etc, and some of the claims seem spurious to me on consideration,,but...well, I'm something of an ecowarrior anyway so it jibes with my worldview. I will admit that while watching the thing and before turning a more critical eye, I was thinking that rationing - of electricity and petrol consumption, air miles, clothing purchases and the rest...even procreation, might be our only chance to save the natural world from virtually total annihilation. Where do I sign up for timeshare on a yurt...the guilt...it hurts.

[The Grand Nudger]

LOL, yurts are baller.  For camping...

I used to prefer appropriate technologies to green, sustainable to organic...when I went through my first wave of green movement disillusionment...but, you know, they were good marketable phrases...sooo....



(I actually met a guy a few years back that wanted me to manage a small farm, had an interview. The idea was to produce nutracueticals to bankroll an intentional community. So those sorts of places exist..but they're a greenwashed market too. Seemed to me that the plan went the other way, in actuality. He was going to sucker credulous loons into buying tents on a piece of blighted land, and use their money and labor to fund his snake oil distribution scheme. He wanted to purchase credibility from me, but didn't seem super interested in paying a prevailing wage for it, lol. My favorite part, was when he told me that he was going to go ahead and keep looking, since I seemed to be "all about the money"......)

[Brian37]

It is somewhat polemic Grand Nudger, no mention of nuclear power, tidal power etc, and some of the claims seem spurious to me on consideration,,but...well, I'm something of an ecowarrior anyway so it jibes with my worldview. I will admit that while watching the thing and before turning a more critical eye, I was thinking that rationing - of electricity and petrol consumption, air miles, clothing purchases and the rest...even procreation, might be our only chance to save the natural world from virtually total annihilation. Where do I sign up for timeshare on a yurt...the guilt...it hurts.

Humans worldwide, really do need to face our overpopulation.

[Duty]

LOL, yurts are baller.  For camping...

I used to prefer appropriate technologies to green, sustainable to organic...when I went through my first wave of green movement disillusionment...but, you know, they were good marketable phrases...sooo....



(I actually met a guy a few years back that wanted me to manage a small farm, had an interview.  The idea was to produce nutracueticals to bankroll an intentional community.  So those sorts of places exist..but they're a greenwashed market too.  Seemed to me that the plan went the other way, in actuality.  He was going to sucker credulous loons into buying tents on a piece of blighted land, and use their money and labor to fund his snake oil distribution scheme. He wanted to purchase credibility from me, but didn't seem super interested in paying a prevailing wage for it, lol.  My favorite part, was when he told me that he was going to go ahead and keep looking, since I seemed to be "all about the money"......)

Please tell me more of you're "first wave green disillusionment" - my lack of that, if indeed it exists and "first wave green disillusionment delusion" is NOT a more fitting term (climate change and the ice caps melting causing mass sea level rise and the forest fires in Australia and the Amazon (prods tentatively with sharp/blunt stick)), for my ecowarriorness causes me no end of strife and I'd dearly love to be free of it in many ways.

You're "entrepreneur" acquaintance had an understandable, if, er misled (or wicked) take on things - ecowarriors are all to often hippy crusty spiritualist woo practitioners, you know, homemade elixir potions and whatnot, so he would have imagined the employment would suit them (and him, did he look like a hippy crusty?).

[The Grand Nudger]

Oh, no. No no no. He was a white collar bean counter for a firm. Procurement. I suppose he just wanted to make a go at it of his own, collect a bit more money for his trouble. He thought he knew where to plug in and how. It really wasn't a bad idea. I never followed up, but it wouldn't surprise me if he were up and running and doing brisk business today. Those essential trips we take to the drug store under lockdown probably amount to more than a few immune boosting elixirs, after all.

Honestly, he may not have seen it himself. High on his own supply. We giggled alot about that around here afterward.

There were others...some funny and some downright infuriating, but all the same pattern. As for my waves of disillusionment...they're pretty standard. I came up being told that environmentalism would be my primary social and economic responsibilit as an adult. We were going to save the earth, because we love the earth.

Turns out that alot of my early ideas on that came from bad actors, or bad data. It happens. Things change over 40 years. The last wave was in realizing how thoroughly bought the green brand has become. So much so that even if you really are running a green operation - you have to match their claims and rhetoric...somehow..or be insolvent. There were always bugs in the house..but at this point, they've eaten away the floorboards and I doubt that we can salvage the building.

That necessarily creates a situation where you have to educate your customer..and they don't like that, and you're basically telling them what the establishment green movement gets wrong..but they're only there listening to you and buying your product because they wanted to be a part of it.

I could sell snake oil to greenie loons all day long because I speak their language, but if it weren't for my wife I couldn't do what we do. She's the happy clerk to my grim faced executioner. I like to joke that we need to start selling our own hooch, in case a member needs a drink after hearing our spiel. Really, that's just cover for a sales pitch Im making to her. An all substance csa. I could do more for the earth, and make more money..selling green, tobacco, and alcohol than I could by installing solar or growing heirloom squash. Plus, the works easier on both counts. That's the american consumer forya.

(I'll never help you rid yourself of environmental guilt, btw - what I usually tell people in person is to buy some of my products and call me in the morning. )