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[Quranic Reflection]: The universe is expanding
#11
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: The universe is expanding
(June 19, 2020 at 7:10 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Yet another scientific miracle in magic book.
And none so interesting as any given Marvel comic book.
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#12
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: The universe is expanding
(June 19, 2020 at 1:01 am)WinterHold Wrote: The Quran states explicitly in this verse that the universe is expanding:


Quote:Sura 51, The Quran:
https://quran.com/51/47?translations=

Sahih International
And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.


Scientifically, this couldn't be more true:

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150602-...iverse-end

Quote:Then in 1929, the American astronomer Edwin Hubble found hard evidence that the universe was expanding. Einstein changed his mind, calling his previous insistence on a static universe the "greatest blunder" of his career.

Please point to a part of your holy book that you think predicts a scientific discovery we haven't made yet.

Because all you're doing with these threads is mangling the words of your holy book to make scientific predictions after the discoveries are made. And we can do that with nearly any book.
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#13
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: The universe is expanding
I have a dice here. I rolled it and predicetd it to be a 6. It was a 6.
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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#14
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: The universe is expanding
Sorry, Atlass, but not convinced.

See the next verse:

https://quran.com/51/48

Quote:And the earth We have spread out, and excellent is the preparer.

If the word "heaven" is meant to refer to the universe, why is there the implied separation between "heaven" and "earth" (which is in line with the traditions of the time)? And does earth being spread out mean that it is also expanding?
"Our attitudes towards things like race or gender operate on two levels. First of all, we have our conscious attitudes. This is what we choose to believe. These are our stated values, which we use to direct our behavior deliberately ... But the IAT [Implicit Association Test] measures something else. It measures our second level of attitude, our racial attitude on an unconscious level - the immediate, automatic associations that tumble out before we've even had time to think. We don't deliberately choose our unconscious attitudes. And ... we may not even be aware of them. The giant computer that is our unconscious silently crunches all the data it can from the experiences we've had, the people we've met, the lessons we've learned, the books we've read, the movies we've seen, and so on, and it forms an opinion." - Malcolm Gladwell
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#15
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: The universe is expanding
(June 19, 2020 at 5:21 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(June 19, 2020 at 1:01 am)WinterHold Wrote: The Quran states explicitly in this verse that the universe is expanding:




Scientifically, this couldn't be more true:

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150602-...iverse-end

But there are other translations of that verse, to wit:

'We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).'

'With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.'

'And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.'

'With power did We construct the heaven. Verily, We are Able to extend the vastness of space thereof.'

'And heaven -- We built it with might, and We extend it wide.'

These, together with your cherry-picked version, seem to indicate that the Universe is big and that Allah takes credit for making it so.  It doesn't really say anything about a constant expansion of the Universe, does it?

Boru

Note that these translations are before 1929. Translations of the Quran into English didn't refer to expansion until after we discovered the universe is expanding.

(June 19, 2020 at 5:43 am)WinterHold Wrote:
(June 19, 2020 at 5:21 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: But there are other translations of that verse, to wit:

'We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).'

'With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.'

'And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.'

'With power did We construct the heaven. Verily, We are Able to extend the vastness of space thereof.'

'And heaven -- We built it with might, and We extend it wide.'

These, together with your cherry-picked version, seem to indicate that the Universe is big and that Allah takes credit for making it so.  It doesn't really say anything about a constant expansion of the Universe, does it?

Boru

I picked the closest to the Arabic text -which I can read and understand-.
To prove that this is not cherry picking; I will translate the verse myself word by word:

====
و السماء بنيناها بأبد وإنا لموسعون

و السماء
And the heaven/sky

بنيناها
we constructed

بأيد
with hands\with our hands

وإنا
And we

لموسعون
will expand it
===========

This is my personal translation, written from my Arabic keyboard, using my eyes to read and my mind to translate.

If someone had translated it that way before 1929, it might have been a tiny bit more impressive.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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#16
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: The universe is expanding
Lets assume, for the sake of the argument, that this verse indeed means the universe is expanding.

Maybe we will find out soon* that the universe does not expand. Thus the Quran would be proven wrong. Would Atlass suspend his belief in Allah? I dont think so. So why create yet another pointless thread? Trolling? Preaching?

*we still dont understand dark matter, dark energy, which make up at least 95% of the universe, as well as gravity itself. Gravity may not be uniform througout the universe (or over time). The universe may temporarily expand only, and then contract or stagnate. We dont know.
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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#17
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: The universe is expanding
(June 19, 2020 at 1:01 am)WinterHold Wrote: The Quran states explicitly in this verse that the universe is expanding:


Quote:Sura 51, The Quran:
https://quran.com/51/47?translations=

Sahih International
And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.


Scientifically, this couldn't be more true:

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150602-...iverse-end

Quote:Then in 1929, the American astronomer Edwin Hubble found hard evidence that the universe was expanding. Einstein changed his mind, calling his previous insistence on a static universe the "greatest blunder" of his career.

Um no,

There is nothing scientific about any holy writing of any religion in human history.

Reaching back in time after the fact to retrofit what you personally want to be true is a tactic used by every religion.

Ambiguous words written in antiquity DO NOT constitute modern scientific knowledge. Every religion in the world has followers that love to point to their holy writings in a bullshit attempt to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Any idiot can look up at the daytime sky and call the sun the sun. But nobody in antiquity knew what it was made of, or that the earth revolved around the sun. Anyone can point to the sky and call it blue, but in antiquity nobody knew why our eyes perceive the sky as blue.
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#18
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: The universe is expanding
Thew verse about spreading out the earth clearly refers to plate tectonics. He's already done that one.

Or..it's just a turn of phrase meant to convey that "We" are the dooers who did the stuff. Spread, not spreading.
It's bad for the rest of the world when americans are paid so little they can only afford chocolate mined by child slaves and clothes made in overseas sweatshops. - Robyn Pennacchia
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#19
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: The universe is expanding
Quote:And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.
Yeah vague wordsmithing here . Expand clearly being used in a building sense which is  not an accurate description of cosmic expansion. The universe isn't being built it's being stretched 

Need i mention that Christians make the same claim about the Bible and funny enough it technically does a better job 

Quote:He sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers, he stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out, as a tent to dwell in” (Geneva Bible).

Of course it it's own problems but still
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”
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#20
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: The universe is expanding
(June 19, 2020 at 5:43 am)WinterHold Wrote:
(June 19, 2020 at 5:21 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: But there are other translations of that verse, to wit:

'We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).'

'With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.'

'And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.'

'With power did We construct the heaven. Verily, We are Able to extend the vastness of space thereof.'

'And heaven -- We built it with might, and We extend it wide.'

These, together with your cherry-picked version, seem to indicate that the Universe is big and that Allah takes credit for making it so.  It doesn't really say anything about a constant expansion of the Universe, does it?

Boru

I picked the closest to the Arabic text -which I can read and understand-.
To prove that this is not cherry picking; I will translate the verse myself word by word:

====
و السماء بنيناها بأبد وإنا لموسعون

و السماء
And the heaven/sky

بنيناها
we constructed

بأيد
with hands\with our hands

وإنا
And we

لموسعون
will expand it
===========

This is my personal translation, written from my Arabic keyboard, using my eyes to read and my mind to translate.

That's nice. What's the Arabic word for "universe"? I don't see it there, which is just the beginning of your post hoc failure.
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