[Quranic Reflection]: The tranquillity men find in women and women find in men

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

This sounds an awful lot like according to Islam our free will and choice is severely compromised.

Actually no, in a nutshell:

-God created everything, including the ability to choose
-He gave humans the ability to choose freely.

So, humans do make their own minds. But if God didn't give them that kind of freedom; there won't be a choice to make in the first place.

It isn’t logically coherent for God to have created ‘everything’ while still allowing free will. Subsumed into the category ‘everything’ are the choices we make and the outcomes of those choices.

It would be better for your position to state, ‘God did not create everything, which is why we have the ability to choose freely’. I’d don’t agree with that argument (I’m a determinist), but it would make more sense for you.

Boru

[WinterHold]

Without "work" or "effort" done by the person, it will be impossible and not fair to get any results.
The person must work, and God would see his/her work; if he/she deserves to get rewarded the reward will come from God.

Pre-divorce, my relationship with my ex-wife was very, very far from tranquil. Post- divorce, my life has never been more tranquil.

That you don't know these kind of things makes me think that you are very young, or an incel.

In either case, grow the fuck up.

I don't know about your experience, but I expect that you didn't find the right woman.
If every woman makes every man happy, then there won't be any problems regarding tranquility in mates.

I might be young, but I know very well that I need to choose my mate like I'm choosing a second body of mine; i.e she must be extremely compatible with me, I expect her to do the same and validate me very carefully.

Better than getting involved, having kids, then cut them and scar them for life between fighting parents who aren't compatible.

---

No.  No no no.  If you've been a very good boy, and allah approves, you'll find a wife in a bag on your doorstep.

Wives, for their part, love this arrangement.  Allah screens out all the assholes who haven't been a very good boy.

God is not an ATM. So many people forget that it's not about God; but it's about us. A Muslims is supposed to be a Muslim because that is "better for their own selves"; look at this verse from the Quran:

Sura 39, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 41 )   Indeed, We sent down to you the Book for the people in truth. So whoever is guided - it is for [the benefit of] his soul; and whoever goes astray only goes astray to its detriment. And you are not a manager over them.

It's not about God, it's about us. If we want what is best for ourselves, then God's way is the way.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

If every woman makes every man happy, then there won't be any problems regarding tranquility in mates.

Why is it the responsibility of women to make men happy? Why not the other way ‘round, or a mutual effort to produce happiness?

Boru

[WinterHold]

Actually no, in a nutshell:

-God created everything, including the ability to choose
-He gave humans the ability to choose freely.

So, humans do make their own minds. But if God didn't give them that kind of freedom; there won't be a choice to make in the first place.

It isn’t logically coherent for God to have created ‘everything’ while still allowing free will. Subsumed into the category ‘everything’ are the choices we make and the outcomes of those choices.

It would be better for your position to state, ‘God did not create everything, which is why we have the ability to choose freely’. I’d don’t agree with that argument (I’m a determinist), but it would make more sense for you.

Boru

But if you set those two rules that:

-God created everything, including the ability to choose
-He gave humans the ability to choose freely.

It will be matching with God's claim to have created everything:

Sura 25, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 2 )   He to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and who has not taken a son and has not had a partner in dominion and has created each thing and determined it with [precise] determination. 

The ability is a creation. Choosing is a creation.
So his will is always preceding ours, we never choose but because he gave us the ability to choose. And even our choice is limited to what he created.

#note (just for fun): humans discovered ways to take away the ability to choose by injecting drugs and other materials into the target,

[The Architect Of Fate]

But if you set those two rules that:

-God created everything, including the ability to choose
-He gave humans the ability to choose freely.

It will be matching with God's claim to have created everything:

No it won't 

The ability is a creation. Choosing is a creation.
So his will is always preceding ours, we never choose but because he gave us the ability to choose. And even our choice is limited to what he created.

#note (just for fun): humans discovered ways to take away the ability to choose by injecting drugs and other materials into the target,

Nonsense

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

It isn’t logically coherent for God to have created ‘everything’ while still allowing free will. Subsumed into the category ‘everything’ are the choices we make and the outcomes of those choices.

It would be better for your position to state, ‘God did not create everything, which is why we have the ability to choose freely’. I’d don’t agree with that argument (I’m a determinist), but it would make more sense for you.

Boru

But if you set those two rules that:

-God created everything, including the ability to choose
-He gave humans the ability to choose freely.

It will be matching with God's claim to have created everything:

Sura 25, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 2 )   He to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and who has not taken a son and has not had a partner in dominion and has created each thing and determined it with [precise] determination. 

The ability is a creation. Choosing is a creation.
So his will is always preceding ours, we never choose but because he gave us the ability to choose. And even our choice is limited to what he created.

#note (just for fun): humans discovered ways to take away the ability to choose by injecting drugs and other materials into the target,

The ability to choose is a thing. The choices we make are things. If God created everything, then he created the choices we make. Therefore, we make no choices at all - they are all pre-made by God. God cannot logically give us the ability to choose and have made all of our choices. You can have one or the other, not both.

Boru

[WinterHold]

But if you set those two rules that:

-God created everything, including the ability to choose
-He gave humans the ability to choose freely.

It will be matching with God's claim to have created everything:


The ability is a creation. Choosing is a creation.
So his will is always preceding ours, we never choose but because he gave us the ability to choose. And even our choice is limited to what he created.

#note (just for fun): humans discovered ways to take away the ability to choose by injecting drugs and other materials into the target,

The ability to choose is a thing. The choices we make are things. If God created everything, then he created the choices we make. Therefore, we make no choices at all - they are all pre-made by God. God cannot logically give us the ability to choose and have made all of our choices. You can have one or the other, not both.

Boru

Yes, there is nothing we create or make that God hadn't willed for it to exist.
Take evil. Actually God himself inspires humans with both evil and good, but leaves the choice to the person:

Sura 91, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 7 )   And [by] the soul and He who proportioned it
( 8 )   And inspired it [with discernment of] its wickedness and its righteousness,
( 9 )   He has succeeded who purifies it,
( 10 )   And he has failed who instills it [with corruption].

He never tells you do the evil, but he tells you do good.
He made both the good and the evil. Put both in front of us. If you chose evil, you go to hell, if you chose good you go to paradise.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

The ability to choose is a thing. The choices we make are things. If God created everything, then he created the choices we make. Therefore, we make no choices at all - they are all pre-made by God. God cannot logically give us the ability to choose and have made all of our choices. You can have one or the other, not both.

Boru

Yes, there is nothing we create or make that God hadn't willed for it to exist.
Take evil. Actually God himself inspires humans with both evil and good, but leaves the choice to the person:

Sura 91, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 7 )   And [by] the soul and He who proportioned it
( 8 )   And inspired it [with discernment of] its wickedness and its righteousness,
( 9 )   He has succeeded who purifies it,
( 10 )   And he has failed who instills it [with corruption].

He never tells you do the evil, but he tells you do good.
He made both the good and the evil. Put both in front of us. If you chose evil, you go to hell, if you chose good you go to paradise.

You’re still not grasping the point. Under the collective delusion  known as the Abrahamic religions, there not only is no ability to freely choose an action, it is impossible for such a choice to exist in the first place.

If there is nothing we make or create that God hasn’t willed to exist, there can be no free choice. If I murder a child, then God has willed that a child be murdered by me, I have no choice in the matter. At the risk of being repetitive, it is God’s will that the child be murdered and that I be the one to commit the act. Similarly, if I have the opportunity to murder a child and don’t, then God has willed it to be so. Again, I didn’t choose not to murder the child, I’m simply acting out a choice made by God, not by me.

Evil isn’t the opportunity for a bad action, it is the action itself. If God wills that a particular action happen or not happen, we can’t act contrarily to that. 

And it isn’t even limited to moral actions. Every single ‘choice’ you ever made or ever will make - how you tie your shoes, where you’ll open a bank account, who you marry, paper or plastic - isn’t a choice, it is merely the carrying out of God’s will, if what you said above is true. 

The only coherent way to include free will in the face of an ultimate creator God is to allow that there are some things (either by design or inability) that God did not create.

Boru

[WinterHold]

Yes, there is nothing we create or make that God hadn't willed for it to exist.
Take evil. Actually God himself inspires humans with both evil and good, but leaves the choice to the person:


He never tells you do the evil, but he tells you do good.
He made both the good and the evil. Put both in front of us. If you chose evil, you go to hell, if you chose good you go to paradise.

You’re still not grasping the point. Under the collective delusion  known as the Abrahamic religions, there not only is no ability to freely choose an action, it is impossible for such a choice to exist in the first place.

If there is nothing we make or create that God hasn’t willed to exist, there can be no free choice. If I murder a child, then God has willed that a child be murdered by me, I have no choice in the matter. At the risk of being repetitive, it is God’s will that the child be murdered and that I be the one to commit the act. Similarly, if I have the opportunity to murder a child and don’t, then God has willed it to be so. Again, I didn’t choose not to murder the child, I’m simply acting out a choice made by God, not by me.

Modern science and the advent of A.I (artificial intelligence) proved that creations can make their own choice as local processes spawned from the mother process.

Take face detection for example -which is an application of A.I-. You take a picture of a face then pass it to a digital Neural Network, the network then decides "who is in the picture" based on the experience it stored before.

This literally the computer answering you with "yes the face belongs to X; or no the face doesn't belong to X"

This is a small example of a God setting his sovereign will above the will of local components like the face detection Neural Network.

This technology is everywhere even in your mobile phone (open the camera; the Neural Network application will put a green square around your face in some phones).

What recognizes your face is the slave processes loaded with Neural Networks -or humans in my example-. While God is the manufacturer of your mobile phone.

Yes; we can make a choice while obeying a higher law dominating us.
But in our case, that higher law is God that created us and created the real neural networks in our brains.

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

Of course, what WinterHold fails to grasp with his "We build A.I." analogy is that we, the builders, are NOT omniscient which WinterHold should think their diety is.