[Quranic Reflection]: moon absorbed by the sun in the Quran: far future.

[Apollo]

Typical theist "Someday something will come along that confirms my beliefs but till then I get to pretend my mystic nonsense is like gravity" Or "Till you prove that it's not true it's true " As if that's our burden.

This “something that will come along...” used to be somewhat reasonable argument a century ago but the work done in past century and particle accelerators have have left the landscape pretty limited to what is reasonably possible and what’s not—and any body, “outside agent” cannot possibly be made of something that can interact with our reality and yet doesn’t have to obey laws governing our reality—we spent billions of dollars to reach that conclusion.

[The Grand Nudger]

 I am only supposed to prove Islam is the most tenable candidate for the right religious claim.

Which you couldn't do by proving a book was magic, proving that angels talked to a rando, or even proving that your god were really real.

If you want to prove that you have the right religious claims, then prove the religious claims, not the thematic background noise.  Same shit I suggested to the other islamist.

[Pat Mustard]

I've gotta ask, what's the point?  Let's say that magic book did predict the future?  Are we supposed to join your club on account of that?  Is that what you think the problem is, Winter?  That, if only more people believed that magic books were crystal balls...there'd be more islamists and sharia in the world?  

I'd like to point out that a huge number of people already do believe that magic books are crystal balls, and still don't have any interest in joining your club.  I have even less interest than those people..and I suspect that the majority of the people here at AF are in that boat with me.

You couldn't go about this in a worse way if you tried - and that's why you've been failing.

No, I think he wants us to accept it for his own sake—it provides validation to his beliefs which usually most of the believers are inherently insecure about.

When more people believe in something you do, it gives strength to the belief which is otherwise standing on fragile stilts. This exercise is no more than strengthening his own self-justification—the more he looks around the more he sees a world different than from his belief system and this creates dissonance—the greater the dissonance (that is, reality is different than magic book) the greater the anxiety/pain.

To reduce that pain he needs to self-justify things that may not be true but still help to reduce the dissonance.

This.

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or that the revelations really came from some agent outside of him.

Yes Quran did come from outside of Mohammed, that is it mainly came from Jewish rabbis, and since Mohammed was illiterate he probably hang out with Jews a lot. The only prophets (with few exceptions) mentioned in the Quran are the Jewish prophets of the Hebrew Scriptures. The most important of these were Noah, Abraham, Jacob and, as one Quranic passage lists them, “David and Solomon, Job and Joseph and Moses and Aaron . . . Zacharias and John, Jesus and Elias . . . and Ishmael, Elisha, Jonah and Lot” (6:84–87).

What I don't understand about the Mohammed mythos is his supposed illiteracy. He was a merchant, a class of peeople for whom some ability to read and write would have been an advantage back in the day.

[WinterHold]

No post hoc. Read the verse again and realize that this was said 1400 years ago.

It will get dimmer and probably humans won't even see it on that day because the red giant's light would be so strong and close to both earth and the moon. So if you will see the stronger light; not the weaker light.

You neglect that earth will be so close to the red giant, so close that it will swallow it later on. If our planet was faraway from the sun I might believe you, but never if the earth is proven to end up inside the sun.

look at the picture in this link again: (this is earth facing the red giant)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o...far_future

Except the people on the night side of the planet, who will only see the moon brighten.  The people on the dayside won't see the moon just like they don't now.

If I were you, I wouldn't go around accusing others of doing things "just to make it look like they knew what the fuck they were talking about." (paraphrase)

Earth will never stop spinning:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/...9efdc2eb7d

The Earth will never stop rotating. Earth rotates in the purest, most perfect vacuum in the whole universe—empty space. Space is so empty, so devoid of anything to slow the Earth down, that it just spins and spins, practically without friction. The moon sloshing our oceans saps the tiniest amount of energy from our spin, as does space dust. But these effects are really trivial.

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I've gotta ask, what's the point?  Let's say that magic book did predict the future?  Are we supposed to join your club on account of that?  Is that what you think the problem is, Winter?  That, if only more people believed that magic books were crystal balls...there'd be more islamists and sharia in the world?  

I'd like to point out that a huge number of people already do believe that magic books are crystal balls, and still don't have any interest in joining your club.  I have even less interest than those people..and I suspect that the majority of the people here at AF are in that boat with me.

You couldn't go about this in a worse way if you tried - and that's why you've been failing.

I have no club. and I did show how clubbers are all falling from Shiites to Sunnies: their Hadith books are long overdue  for retirement. Age exposed them, but the Quran is still standing innocent from the darkness of their institutions.

Believe in this book or don't, that's totally up to you.

[Peebothuhlu]

Earth will never stop spinning:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/...9efdc2eb7d

The Earth will never stop rotating. Earth rotates in the purest, most perfect vacuum in the whole universe—empty space. Space is so empty, so devoid of anything to slow the Earth down, that it just spins and spins, practically without friction. The moon sloshing our oceans saps the tiniest amount of energy from our spin, as does space dust. But these effects are really trivial.

Just a point.

Do you actually understand celestial mechanics there WinterHold Old Chap?

Is it not strane that the Moon also rotates in the SAME near perfect vacume as the Earth that you're setting as an example and YET the Moon is currently tidally locked to face the Earth.

Now, why might that be, do you think?

Or that Mercury's current rotation is such that it is currently in 'Harmony' with the Sun and it too effectivly only shows one face towards our celestial centre.

So, while the red giant phase of the Sun is, indeed, a very long span of years away. The rotational phase of the Earth will definately be different (To potentially tidally locked to the Sun) than what it is today.

Just trying to explain a few things.

Cheers.

Not at work.

[no one]

But, but, but, my wish granting magic sky pixie, must be the real wish granting magic sky pixie, because, this particular wish granting magic sky pixie, is most in tune with what I believe. Therefore, my book of illusion, sorcery, and wizardry is super duper significant, and all of its blithering drivel is the truthiest truth that's ever been truthed.

[WinterHold]

Oh, we're long past wondering whether our friend Winter gets some validation from our little community.  Obviously I pick at him for it - but to one extent or another we're all here for that, or getting that from being here.  That believers are willing to twist themselves into a giant gordian knot to maintain their belief is unremarkable - and I'm familiar with the experience...we're all familiar with the experience.  

We can grant, to anyone, for anything, the notion that - if we believed what they did about a magic book - we might believe in a god.  What I hope that Winter gets from hanging out with apostates and heretics and other assorted undesirables like us, is that this bnelief in magic books and gods isn;t really the or any underlying justification for their religious beliefs.

They believe those things for reason unrelated to whether they get their interpretation of a magic book right, or whether the book is actually magic.  They should lead with that, if they want to explain the actual reasons for their beliefs.  Particularly and especially if they, as they and we all invariably do, wish to have more people assume and share those beliefs.

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@BrianSoddingBoru4

Don't even get me started on the sophisticated and very specific intelligence network that the o at d represented, lol.  I will bore the living shit out of anyone alive ranting about that one.

You should know by now that a validation from you doesn't quite interest me, haven't you see this verse?

Sura 12, The Quran:
https://quran.com/12/103?translations=

(103) And most people will not believe—no matter how keen you are— 

So you're contradicting yourself if you thought that I'm waiting for people to believe, I'm actually expecting the other thing. But I do what I do for myself:

Sura 31, The Quran:
https://quran.com/31/12?translations=

(12) Indeed, We blessed Luqmân with wisdom, ˹saying˺, “Be grateful to Allah, for whoever is grateful, it is only for their own good. And whoever is ungrateful, then surely Allah is Self-Sufficient, Praiseworthy.”1

[Deesse23]

Earth will never stop spinning:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/...9efdc2eb7d

The Earth will never stop rotating. Earth rotates in the purest, most perfect vacuum in the whole universe—empty space. Space is so empty, so devoid of anything to slow the Earth down, that it just spins and spins, practically without friction. The moon sloshing our oceans saps the tiniest amount of energy from our spin, as does space dust. But these effects are really trivial.

Thank you for demonstrating, once again, that you have ab.so.fucking.lutely no clue what the fuck you are talking about.....and the high school teacher you are quoting as well.

First of all: The high school teacher you quoted is missing something important, actually the most important thing about tidal forces. The fact that you are ignorant enough to have to rely on a high school teacher speaks volumes about you. The fact that you didnt notice that he missed something very important speaks even more about your ignorance.

Tidal forces:
They do not only affect the water oceans but, much more importantly, the interior of any pair of celestial objects orbiting each other. This converts rotational energy into heat and makes celestial bodies tidally locked to their host*, like planets close to their stars or moons close to their parent planets. Thats why our moon is tidally locked to earth. Earth slowd down Moons rotation until it was tidally locked. Before Moon was tidally locked it was able to convert rotational energy into heat (in its interior, by friction), until it was tidally locked. Moon also slows down Earths rotation.  Thats why 400 million years ago a day on earth was only 22 hours and 4bn years ago it was 6-14 hours. Its basic physics and we have actual evidence for that to have happened.
Earth rotating slower over time and Earth forcing Moon into tidal lock is also responsible for Moon receding into a bigger orbit over time**. They will basically end up being tidally locked to each other. That is: ignoring the effect of Sun on Earth because: The same is valid for the Sun/Earth system.


*thats why moons like Europa and Enceladus may be warm enough below their ice sheets to possibly harbor life.
** I am avoiding to talk about angular momentum, since that will be WAY above our head. So i am explaining like i would explain to a 6y old. Having said that: The difference between you and a 6 old is that the 6y old will be able to learn.

[The Grand Nudger]

Okay Winter, whatever you say, no validation, and you have no hopes of convincing anyone else of anything you believe. Not sure what Allahs policy on honesty is, but gl with it.

Since you're just babbling at us for no reason and to no end, why should anyone respond to you?

[Mister Agenda]

And not only tidal forces; as the sun expands, earth will at least be caught in the sun's extended atmosphere, possibly in its outer surface. That's a lot of friction. By the time the earth, with lava oceans and stripped of most of its atmosphere, is another 12 or 13 billion years older, it's fate is probably to be destroyed by the red giant Sun; or if it survives that as an uninhabitable planet, to fall into the black dwarf Sun in 100 trillion years or so.