Posts: 66321
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?
January 18, 2021 at 3:26 pm
If things are in constant change, what issue would there be with changing laws? I can't figure it out, but that might be a failure of my own imagination.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 763
Threads: 122
Joined: August 31, 2011
Reputation:
6
RE: Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?
January 25, 2021 at 1:47 pm
(January 18, 2021 at 3:26 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: If things are in constant change, what issue would there be with changing laws? I can't figure it out, but that might be a failure of my own imagination.
Our moral sense is constant and does not change. It is hardwired into our DNA.
If we, as citizens, put god above man and our governments, then you would have a point.
Americans swear their pledge of alliance to the state and not to a god.
Christians and other religions break that pledge when preaching against the state laws.
Regards
DL
Posts: 43999
Threads: 528
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation:
109
RE: Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?
January 25, 2021 at 1:53 pm
(January 25, 2021 at 1:47 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: (January 18, 2021 at 3:26 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: If things are in constant change, what issue would there be with changing laws? I can't figure it out, but that might be a failure of my own imagination.
Our moral sense is constant and does not change. It is hardwired into our DNA.
If we, as citizens, put god above man and our governments, then you would have a point.
Americans swear their pledge of alliance to the state and not to a god.
Christians and other religions break that pledge when preaching against the state laws.
Regards
DL
Americans pledge to a state ‘under God’. I don’t like that any more than you do, but that IS what that particular prayer says.
A truly secular pledge would read something like, ‘I pledge allegiance to liberty and justice for all,’ without all that nationalistic/religious jingoism in the middle.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 66321
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?
January 25, 2021 at 2:16 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2021 at 2:19 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
@ Greatest I am
I'm not sure what you mean when you say that our moral sense is constant and does not change, or that it's being hardwired in a sense in our dna would make it so. Have humans not changed? Have our moral propositions not changed? I get that you think there are good morals and bad morals. What I'm wondering is how you could view human moral sense as a constant in light of history, the present, or just the presence of those moral views you deem unworthy?
You must know that we've changed our minds on alot of this stuff over the course of human development - you're referencing an active disagreement.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 43999
Threads: 528
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation:
109
RE: Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?
January 25, 2021 at 2:25 pm
Maybe the meaning is the fact that we have a moral sense (a sense of morality) hasn’t changed.
But, yeah...what we view as moral is clearly fluid.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 66321
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?
January 25, 2021 at 2:28 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2021 at 2:30 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I thought about that - but that's just an issue of dialing the clock back further. We were anatomically modern before we were behaviorally modern.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 15162
Threads: 115
Joined: July 10, 2013
Reputation:
65
RE: Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?
January 25, 2021 at 3:54 pm
(January 25, 2021 at 1:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (January 25, 2021 at 1:47 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: Our moral sense is constant and does not change. It is hardwired into our DNA.
If we, as citizens, put god above man and our governments, then you would have a point.
Americans swear their pledge of alliance to the state and not to a god.
Christians and other religions break that pledge when preaching against the state laws.
Regards
DL
Americans pledge to a state ‘under God’. I don’t like that any more than you do, but that IS what that particular prayer says.
A truly secular pledge would read something like, ‘I pledge allegiance to liberty and justice for all,’ without all that nationalistic/religious jingoism in the middle.
Boru Though the "under God" was added a few years before I was born the pledge I learned was "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
This is what I learned when I started school and I think it was what was said at the next elementary school I attended. Those were both public schools K-3 for the first one and 4-5 for the next. I am pretty sure I had to go with the "under god" version in 6th grade when I got sentenced to Catholic school by my parents following another move.
“If you are the smartest person in the room, then you are in the wrong room.” — Confucius
Posts: 763
Threads: 122
Joined: August 31, 2011
Reputation:
6
RE: Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?
January 25, 2021 at 4:46 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2021 at 4:52 pm by Greatest I am.)
(January 25, 2021 at 1:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (January 25, 2021 at 1:47 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: Our moral sense is constant and does not change. It is hardwired into our DNA.
If we, as citizens, put god above man and our governments, then you would have a point.
Americans swear their pledge of alliance to the state and not to a god.
Christians and other religions break that pledge when preaching against the state laws.
Regards
DL
Americans pledge to a state ‘under God’. I don’t like that any more than you do, but that IS what that particular prayer says.
A truly secular pledge would read something like, ‘I pledge allegiance to liberty and justice for all,’ without all that nationalistic/religious jingoism in the middle.
Boru
I am not surprised that Americans do not live by their words or constitution that separate church and state.
They do not follow their religious constitutions either.
I don't know if any people regardless of country do.
Nice that most are half way decent without them.
Regards
DL
(January 25, 2021 at 2:16 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: @Greatest I am
I'm not sure what you mean when you say that our moral sense is constant and does not change, or that it's being hardwired in a sense in our dna would make it so. Have humans not changed? Have our moral propositions not changed? I get that you think there are good morals and bad morals. What I'm wondering is how you could view human moral sense as a constant in light of history, the present, or just the presence of those moral views you deem unworthy?
You must know that we've changed our minds on alot of this stuff over the course of human development - you're referencing an active disagreement.
Yes, we are like yoyos, especially where religions using women are at issue.
It seems that women can raise a lot more charitable cash than men, and that Christians used them as cash cows, as required.
I do not see where our morals have changed in any real way. What change have you seen?
The Golden Rule is a basic that almost all use and live life by.
What do you see anyone else using?
Regards
DL
Posts: 66321
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?
January 25, 2021 at 4:55 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2021 at 4:56 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I don't live by the golden rule, and what do you suspect people lived by before we see the golden rule pop up?
Is it your contention that human morality has been one way in all places and at all times, or that we yoyo?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 763
Threads: 122
Joined: August 31, 2011
Reputation:
6
RE: Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?
January 25, 2021 at 5:52 pm
(January 25, 2021 at 4:55 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I don't live by the golden rule, and what do you suspect people lived by before we see the golden rule pop up?
Is it your contention that human morality has been one way in all places and at all times, or that we yoyo?
I am still waiting to see which moral tenet you see as having changed.
We still follow our instincts as far as I can see, as we either cooperate or compete, as required or desired.
If you do not follow a reciprocity tenet as your first presentation, what tenet do you start with?
Regards
DL
|
