trying to adopt an amoral worldview

[bonbonbaron]

Hi, I''m new here. So... I came here because I could use some pointers if you have any. 

I left Christianity a decade ago after reading the whole Bible. I had too many intellectual problems with it. But now, a decade after the fact, I still find myself looking at people in terms of "good" and "bad". But I've seen "bad" people be rewarded lavishly by nature for stabbing their friends in the back and stealing their girlfriends AND friends; these people are some of the most loved people I know. I still see that through the lens of "fairness"; I see it as being a bad person, being immoral, etc. I would love to come out of this mindset and adopt another one more in tune with the way the universe actually works. I don't want to be that weak person who thinks he'll get what he wants by being "good". Unfortunately I don't have a good feel for how much of life should be seen as "climbing the dominance hierarchy" and "being kind to your fellow man". I dunno. I'm just confused right now, and if this post made no sense, I wouldn't blame you.

If you get what I'm trying to say though, I'd really appreciate some pointers. I'm sure I'm not as seasoned in the "real-world" thinking as a lot of you atheists-for-life are. Thanks.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

ETHICS: The things that allow us to live with other people.

MORALS: The things that allow us to live with ourselves.

Do you really meant to be unable to live with yourself?

[bonbonbaron]

I've never heard that distinction between ethics and morals before. I view the world through more of a lens of what works and what doesn't. So when I see other people benefiting from verbally abusing their peers into submission and getting the girl and all the cool friends, it makes me question the whole "morality is the way" paradigm. NOTE: That doesn't mean I'm going to go out and make other people feel like crap. I'm just questioning the moralistic viewpoint, that's all.

[brewer]

Morality exists on a sliding scale and is tied to set (mindset) and setting (circumstance).

[arewethereyet]

What makes you think atheists are by definition amoral?

[Pat Mustard]

Hi, I''m new here. So... I came here because I could use some pointers if you have any. 

I left Christianity a decade ago after reading the whole Bible. I had too many intellectual problems with it. But now, a decade after the fact, I still find myself looking at people in terms of "good" and "bad". But I've seen "bad" people be rewarded lavishly by nature for stabbing their friends in the back and stealing their girlfriends AND friends; these people are some of the most loved people I know. I still see that through the lens of "fairness"; I see it as being a bad person, being immoral, etc. I would love to come out of this mindset and adopt another one more in tune with the way the universe actually works. I don't want to be that weak person who thinks he'll get what he wants by being "good". Unfortunately I don't have a good feel for how much of life should be seen as "climbing the dominance hierarchy" and "being kind to your fellow man". I dunno. I'm just confused right now, and if this post made no sense, I wouldn't blame you.

If you get what I'm trying to say though, I'd really appreciate some pointers. I'm sure I'm not as seasoned in the "real-world" thinking as a lot of you atheists-for-life are. Thanks.

Excrementum occurs. The simple fact of the matter is that we are too small and insignificant for the universe to notice, even if it was a god filled universe.

All you can do is find your own meaning, and work off that. Find your way of making yourself a better person, and thus, in a small way, making the world better too.

[zwanzig]

I'm not really understanding the goal. It is fine to have your own personally defined morals and standards. But at the end of the day, it's not just about you but about the broader community and social structure around you. You have to be able to function within the system of agreed upon morals.

[Smaug]

Hi, I''m new here. So... I came here because I could use some pointers if you have any. 

I left Christianity a decade ago after reading the whole Bible. I had too many intellectual problems with it. But now, a decade after the fact, I still find myself looking at people in terms of "good" and "bad". But I've seen "bad" people be rewarded lavishly by nature for stabbing their friends in the back and stealing their girlfriends AND friends; these people are some of the most loved people I know. I still see that through the lens of "fairness"; I see it as being a bad person, being immoral, etc. I would love to come out of this mindset and adopt another one more in tune with the way the universe actually works. I don't want to be that weak person who thinks he'll get what he wants by being "good". Unfortunately I don't have a good feel for how much of life should be seen as "climbing the dominance hierarchy" and "being kind to your fellow man". I dunno. I'm just confused right now, and if this post made no sense, I wouldn't blame you.

If you get what I'm trying to say though, I'd really appreciate some pointers. I'm sure I'm not as seasoned in the "real-world" thinking as a lot of you atheists-for-life are. Thanks.

Moral codes are products of human developement as a social species. A solitary predator benefits from its strength and agility and social species benefit from cooperation. But cooperation only works if boundaries are imposed on aggressive and self-serving behaviour. To put it simple, unhindered killing and stealing will tear a society apart in no time for obvious reasons: there will be no mutual trust and cooperation will not be possible. This is an extremely simplified example but it should get across the main point: morals exist for objective, natural reasons. However, it doesn't mean that they're all 'just' or relevant. They aren't set in stone. The world changes and moral codes, too. It's useful to scrutinize them through reasoning.

[ignoramus]

I find a large majority of people as downright pigs the way they talk to and treat their fellow human beings.
I just look at Trump who is a plain garden variety narcissistic sociopath and see how many followers he has and that basically shows how far down the shitter our western moral compass has strayed. Mind you, we are still the best of the worst. Look at the morals of the CCP. Those guys are just monsters...

Disney style morals where the good guy gets the princess sells movie tickets because we all dream of that kind of utopia, but it has always been a fantasy.
Basically, try to be a good person, keep to yourself and never mouth off to an egomaniac because they'll always beat you with experience.

Sometimes, just going to the supermarket feels like a social minefield. And things are about to get magnitudes worse as time goes on ...

[arewethereyet]

I've never heard that distinction between ethics and morals before. I view the world through more of a lens of what works and what doesn't. So when I see other people benefiting from verbally abusing their peers into submission and getting the girl and all the cool friends, it makes me question the whole "morality is the way" paradigm. NOTE: That doesn't mean I'm going to go out and make other people feel like crap. I'm just questioning the moralistic viewpoint, that's all.

Bold mine - this sounds like you are pretty young, I hope you are anyway.  

Maybe some background....are you the nice guy who doesn't get the girl and hangs out with the not-so-cool other guys who can't get the girl?

Spidey senses tingling a bit.